Women training with men

[Tibriel]

Hi all,

Where I practice MA my Sensei almost always places the women with the women. I personally find this to be disadvantagous for them from a self defence perspective especially. Everybody needs to know how to defend themselves from others bigger than they are and by only paring up the women with each other when they practice I feel is robbing them of that experience.

I did bring it up once with him since I help instruct at the school but it seems like he is worried about young adolecence grappling with each other, insecurities and other such things.

Any comments?

[Dennis Monk]

I have sparred with women that held their own just fine. As far self defense situations go, if a woman is defending herself, it will almost surely be against a man. I personally think it is a good idea for them to spar and train with men.

[Eliz]

I think women should train with anyone and everyone - male and female.

There are some women in the school, however, who have specifically requested to only spar other women. I am never told the reasons, I am only given the instructions from the owners. Maybe something happened? They came from abusive relationships? I don't know. I just do what I'm told....

[Budoka34]

I prefer to keep the female working together until they have some comfort in their kills. The same goes for the males.
Once they are comfortable then I let them challenge each other's preconceptions.

If a man or woman is not comfortable with the opposite sex then they can request a same sex partner, no problem.

[Digi]

It's the same way at my dojo so student people can test their techniques effectiveness on various situations.

I think women should train with anyone and everyone - male and female.

[Gene Williams]

I have sparred with women that held their own just fine. As far self defense situations go, if a woman is defending herself, it will almost surely be against a man. I personally think it is a good idea for them to spar and train with men.

This question should have been answered and done right here. Women need to work against men. That is who will attack them, plus if they train with men as peers they will lose their fear of them.

[Margaret Lo]

Women need to work against men..... plus if they train with men as peers they will lose their fear of them.

OR, they will gain a healthy respect/fear/caution for the power/weight/reach advantage men have over women and 1) train to emphasize tai sabaki, ma ai; 2) train in unbalancing/break from hold techniques; 3) train "complimentary techniques" add atemi to aikido, jujutsu to karate; and/or 4) carry a neat little weapon.

M

[jailess]

and/or 4) carry a neat little weapon.

They already do. It's that look you give us to let us know we've screwed up, there's no way we can make up for it, you're going to be mad at us for the next 2 weeks, you're going to tell all your friends we're a b*stard and NO WAY are you going to tell us what we've done.

Generally, most women's ki energy is lacking or over exagerated in training.

What do you mean by this? That they're overaggressive or less so? They're less strong? Slower? Poorer technique?

If you meant over/underaggressive, we have a similar situation in our Dojo. The girls are either timid about training, or hamfisted and techniqueless. Is Techniqueless a word? Oh, well, you know what I mean. It must stop at some point, though; our assistant instructor's a female Shodan and is just the right balance of aggressive and good technique. Good instructor, too.

[Kat]

[QUOTE=jailess]They already do. It's that look you give us to let us know we've screwed up, there's no way we can make up for it, you're going to be mad at us for the next 2 weeks, you're going to tell all your friends we're a b*stard and NO WAY are you going to tell us what we've done.

[Koshu]

On Debra's cue, I'll pick up where we left off before gojuman's entrance.

. . . In our dojo women practice randori with men for the purpose of developing the experience required to stand with an often larger and more powerful opponet. My 11 and 13 year old daughters train in the youth class but my 15 year old daughter will attend the adult class to prepare for a tournament. The men in the class (at all belt levels) have shown great care with my daughter in trying educate her to advance her skill level. Kyoshi emphasizes the skill of being able to develop all students (male and female) below your rank as part of your development as a martial artist.

I've found that the female students that stick with training at our school end up every bit as formidable as the men within the context of formal techniques within a dojo setting. Beyond waza, we practice enough reality-based scenarios, and have received enough feedback from female students who've been accosted but prevailed outside of the dojo, to realize that the mental resolve to do what's necessary to prevail is more important than form-perfect technical execution. Why? Verbal and body-language warnings do work on a large number of attackers before the assault takes place or escalates. The time-tested simple dirty-fighting tactics (e.g. a blind attacker is much less of a threat, pinkies break easier than jaws) do provide openings for more damage or escapes. Moving, thinking targets do provide attackers less opportunity to hit, grab, or verbally set up prey.

Gender is largely transparent if these lessons have been well-learned by women. However, it takes women training with compassionate men willing to play the heavy in a real way to ensure this happens.

[Tuturuhan]

Boy am I going to open a can of worms...

1) I teach an all women's class, an all men's class and a mixed class. In each class we concentrate on yin, yang and interaction.

2) One of the main teacher's in my "kali" linage was a woman called the "Blind Princess Josephina". The result is that the first 70% of the method concentrates on receiving, blending and guiding and directing the attack of our opponents.

3) I teach female weapons like the "hidden knife" to women almost immediately. However, I will not allow a beginner man to touch a "live knife" for at least 2 years. Why? Besides the history and culture of the method...it has more to do with female/yin and male/yang physiology and anatomy. Specifially, when a man touches a "live blade" his levels of adrenelin and the stress hormone cortisol begin to spike. As such his emotions get the better of him as he faces a "fight or flight" situation.

Women on the other hand do not spike in terms of those hormones and as such are in greater emotional control when using the "hidden knife". This gender difference also plays out in terms of a women's "fine motor movements" vs. a man's "gross motor movements". A women's superior dexterity thus plays a big role in their superior knife skills. Likewise, a weapon like the heavy staff or quando (staff with sword attached) is easier for a man to learn because of his greater muscularity.

4) As such, we start out with a bias toward "circular movement, female fluidity and dancelike movements. The men have to learn to "dance" and the women work on movements that match their innate female/yin characteristics. (In taoism Yin/female is defined as deep, dark, rythmic, and fluid/water. Yang/male definded as outward, white, percussive, hard/fire)

When both have worked on their gender strong points...we create the interaction. Women learn to exhibit yang and Men learn to exhibit yin. Female energy and male energy is combined to create...to be more powerful than they were as separate entities.

5) So, as an old man (I'm 50) I choose to practice internal/yin/female methods because I can no longer compete against the 18 year old using yang methods. As such, I don't compete in sport where their are rules and regulations...most assuredly I will lose against the bigger, stronger, 18 year old. But,by using, deepness (years of knowledge and wisdom) darkness (hidden technique), rythmic (a method that allows me to blend and absorb) and fluidity ( I can engulf my opponent with "no inch cavity strikes). In metaphor, I use a "hidden knife" so that I can still beat the 18 year old.

6) I know that some people, will feel affronted by these "politically incorrect" statements. But, in terms of results, I will put any of my women instructors against any man...especially when they have a "female weapon" in their hands, hidden behind their backs

Tuhan Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

[Andrew Green]

First class or two maybe keep them with someone they'll be more comfortable with, size and gender, but after that everyone works with everyone.

[wtkd]

In my school we're pretty much thrown together. But sometimes it's same sex.

[WhiteBeltJones]

When we practice basic techniques in Judo, we'll do it pretty much co-ed. For randori though, they generally try to match us up with similarly sized opponents. Usually this leads to same-gender sparring.

For the record, I would feel very uncomfortable holding down a woman with tate shiho gatame.

[Budoka34]

Kurt,

I feel very uncomfortable being held down by anyone with tate shiho gatame!

[WhiteBeltJones]

Kurt,

I feel very uncomfortable being held down by anyone with tate shiho gatame!

Yeah, after I read a certain article (that I shall not link) in which it featured strongly, I feel kinda iffy about it m'self.

[Andrew Green]

ok, don't post things like that, cause then I google cause I'm curious and well, It turns out being curious was not the best idea... :s

[Tibriel]

ok, don't post things like that, cause then I google cause I'm curious and well, It turns out being curious was not the best idea... :s

Just what exactly did you search with?

[dao]

If you can't figure it out then never mind....

[Eliz]

If you can't figure it out then never mind....

So true. Sounds like a little TMI!