Women training with men

[James O'Neill]

We have always had the women in there right with the men too.

Liz said: "One guy continually dropped me on my head as he wouldn't give me the torque to complete my break falls..."

Best way I know of to make sure you get enough torque to get over is to grab onto him & use him to lever off of - kinda like a gymnast will use a horse sometimes... Easy to show - LOL - kinda tough to explain though...

[Mandeigh Wells]

I don't much like training with wussy women either.

[James O'Neill]

...Okay - LOL.

We don't currently have any female students right now but we have had plenty in the past. None of them were wussies. Matter of fact, some were out and out tougher than some of the male students.

Reminds me of the scene in that movie species where they talk about having chosen to produce a female human / alien hybrid because it would be more docile and controlable than a male. LOL - didn't work out so well

[Mandeigh Wells]

well you know what they say...the female of the species is more deadly than the male!

Last week I hit my instructor across the face with my shinai.....we were doing a fast full on drill....he's 6'3" and I'm 5'2" when I'm paired with any bloke in the class who is new etc.....I always say just go gentle on me I'm just a wee girl who wears glasses.....then I anihilate them.

[Eliz]

Looks like everyone is chiming in on this from all styles and backgrounds. I could give a thousand reasons why it is done like this in our DOJO but it looks like you are just trying to survey as to what people are doing around the country...............not to mention I do not wish to make any enemies here by giving a nutshell version of things and then be accused of being sexiest or whatever. In our DOJO women are not allowed in the same classes they have their own, they have the own testing criteria and are not permitted to go past NIDAN (2nd degree black belt). I also want to say this looks like a nice site (I am new here) and look forward to sharing thoughts on training with you all. I am a believer that just like religion no one style has all the answers (but we feel we have most)

take care guys
Randy

Wierd.
First post, you jump in the women's section and stir the pot. All the while claiming you don't want to appear sexist. Allow me to be the first to say that is not normal. Usually people head to the general section or their section of interest.

Than you sign your post, "Take Care Guys." Sounds like a good-bye.

Some background information would be nice. Perhaps it would help us all to understand a little better why ceilings are placed on some students but not others.

You stated there are women's only classes so it is assumed that women attend this school. Obviously the treatment can't be too bad.

[Eliz]

We have always had the women in there right with the men too.

Liz said: "One guy continually dropped me on my head as he wouldn't give me the torque to complete my break falls..."

Best way I know of to make sure you get enough torque to get over is to grab onto him & use him to lever off of - kinda like a gymnast will use a horse sometimes... Easy to show - LOL - kinda tough to explain though...

FANTASTIC!
He better watch himself Tuesday. I am now armed and ready!

Thank You.

[Webmaster]

[James O'Neill]

You are very welcome Liz - the whole grabbing onto them thing also facilitates your counters & because you are applying weight to him (or her) it helps tori make sure they have good balance & posture at the same time it helps you with your falls.

Mandeigh said: "...when I'm paired with any bloke in the class who is new etc.....I always say just go gentle on me I'm just a wee girl who wears glasses.....then I anihilate them."

Ahh - Ms. Wells you are a woman after my own heart LOL - and hey, your new student gets a 2 for one lesson; in Kumdo and in not judging a book by its cover

[gojuman]

Looks like everyone is chiming in on this from all styles and backgrounds. I could give a thousand reasons why it is done like this in our DOJO but it looks like you are just trying to survey as to what people are doing around the country...............not to mention I do not wish to make any enemies here by giving a nutshell version of things and then be accused of being sexiest or whatever. In our DOJO women are not allowed in the same classes they have their own, they have the own testing criteria and are not permitted to go past NIDAN (2nd degree black belt). I also want to say this looks like a nice site (I am new here) and look forward to sharing thoughts on training with you all. I am a believer that just like religion no one style has all the answers (but we feel we have most)

take care guys
Randy

Wow, didn't mean to stir the bee's nest here. It looked like a forum of just stating what everyone is doing out there. Not who's right or not. I will address a few comments. Someone mentioned I jumped right to this subject, that is because I was searching the net for such subjects to discuss at our next black belt meeting as it is a subject on the table. Someone mentioned there are several women capable of beating up some men in his dojo.....................you might want to get some new men! If I were walking into a real fight I would most likely take in a green belt male over a blackbelt woman...................sexist I think not just physic's folks. Men were blessed with many of these natural abilities just as women were blessed with others. I could care less about politically correct......................just being correct. One other said she actually asks the guy to take it easy then blasts him.............that is why we have them separate. You go too easy they get pissed because they don't want to be different, you go too hard your the ******* who flattened a woman. A woman can go as hard as they want and if they get lucky enough to take a guy out its funny.......................the men have to figure out just how far to go. So we separate so all can go full out with no excuses. As for why we do this, if any of you are members of some of the very traditional overseas ASIAN groups they actually not only have these policies for women but even restrictions on non Asian Men. For example our Aikido division will NEVER promote an American past 5th Dan. That was actually one of Steven Segals claims to fame.....................he was the first in that organization to go above a particular rank and allowed to teach it. (Marrying into the family probably didn't hurt). Anyway in short it is because they would not be recognized by our master at that level in our organization. Some of us agree some of us do not. Which is why we are coming togther to discuss it again.

[STORMCROW34]

well you know what they say...the female of the species is more deadly than the male!

Last week I hit my instructor across the face with my shinai.....we were doing a fast full on drill....he's 6'3" and I'm 5'2" when I'm paired with any bloke in the class who is new etc.....I always say just go gentle on me I'm just a wee girl who wears glasses.....then I anihilate them.

Out of curiosity, what are you accomplishing here?

Since we are equal, regardless if the new person you "annihilate" is a male or a female, you are bullying and taking advantage of their inexperience and consideration.

[starkjudo]

Out of curiosity, what are you accomplishing here?

Since we are equal, regardless if the new person you "annihilate" is a male or a female, you are bullying and taking advantage of their inexperience and consideration.

I think Mandeigh was making a little joke there.

[Webmaster]

Wow, didn't mean to stir the bee's nest here. It looked like a forum of just stating what everyone is doing out there. Not who's right or not. I will address a few comments. Someone mentioned I jumped right to this subject, that is because I was searching the net for such subjects to discuss at our next black belt meeting as it is a subject on the table. Someone mentioned there are several women capable of beating up some men in his dojo.....................you might want to get some new men! If I were walking into a real fight I would most likely take in a green belt male over a blackbelt woman...................sexist I think not just physic's folks. Men were blessed with many of these natural abilities just as women were blessed with others. I could care less about politically correct......................just being correct. One other said she actually asks the guy to take it easy then blasts him.............that is why we have them separate. You go too easy they get pissed because they don't want to be different, you go too hard your the ******* who flattened a woman. A woman can go as hard as they want and if they get lucky enough to take a guy out its funny.......................the men have to figure out just how far to go. So we separate so all can go full out with no excuses. As for why we do this, if any of you are members of some of the very traditional overseas ASIAN groups they actually not only have these policies for women but even restrictions on non Asian Men. For example our Aikido division will NEVER promote an American past 5th Dan. That was actually one of Steven Segals claims to fame.....................he was the first in that organization to go above a particular rank and allowed to teach it. (Marrying into the family probably didn't hurt). Anyway in short it is because they would not be recognized by our master at that level in our organization. Some of us agree some of us do not. Which is why we are coming togther to discuss it again.

Good grief! Could you PLEASE MAKE AN ATTEMPT to put your replies into paragraphs? How about a little attention to some grammar too?

Anyway, what particular "very traditional overseas ASIAN groups" would you be referring to? I think that the Aikikai, Yoseikei, etc are pretty traditional, but they seem to have a few folks over the rank of 5th Dan who are not Asian.

Alain Floquet -- Yoseikan, France, 8th Dan
Patrick Auge - Yoseikan, California(USA), 8th Dan
Georges Stobbaerts -- Butokukai, Portugal, 8th Dan
Amos Parker -- Yoshinkai, USA, 8th Dan
Michel Soulenq - Aikikai, France, 7th Dan
Christian Tissier -- Aikikai, France, 7th Dan
Gerard Blaize -- Aikikai, France, 7th Dan
Christopher Curtis -- Ki-Aikido, Hawaii(USA), 7th Dan
Erhard Altenbrandt, DAB, Germany, 7th Dan
Rolf Brand, DAB, Germany, 7th Dan
Gerhardt Walter, Aikikai, Germany, 7th Dan
Kevin Blok, World Kobudo Federation(Aikido Section), 7th Dan
Giam Pietro Savegango, Aikikai, Italy, 7th Dan
Chuck Clark - Jiyushinkai, Arizona(USA), 7th Dan
Frank Doran - Aikikai, California(USA), 7th Dan
Harvey Konigsberg -- Aikikai, (USA), 7th Dan
Robert Nadeau - Aikikai, California(USA), 7th Dan
Steven Seagal - Aikikai, California(USA), 7th Dan
William Witt - Aikikai, California(USA), 7th dan

How about the Kodokan Judo? That's pretty traditional and I can think of immediately one woman with high rank, Keiko Fukuda, 9th Dan. There is a number of Westerners that hold rank above 6th Dan with the Kodokan.

Anyway, if your organization wants to hold on to it's old ways and discriminates against women, then that is your business. Not really much different in attitude than requiring women to wear a burka.

[Mandeigh Wells]

I think Mandeigh was making a little joke there.

Thanks Rob!

Actually the last guy I said it to happens to be a black belt...he's been away on detachement the last 6 moths, so although he's been training longer, I've actually only just met him...so he is 'new' but more experienced than me!

Not really much different in attitude than requiring women to wear a burka.

actually, one of my work mates recently said I'd look good in one of those...

[STORMCROW34]

So it's not a joke? You actually do this to people?

Why? Help me out here, what's the point?

[Webmaster]

Michael:

If the guys is a black belt, you cannot say that she is taking advantage of their inexperience. In fact, it sounds like they are letting their guard down just because she is a woman and thus not taking her seriously. That is their problem, not hers.

[Mandeigh Wells]

It is a standing joke at our club.....cos I'm the smallest and I wear glasses...... you know the old saying...you wouldn't hit a girl with glasses would you.

I've even said it to my instructors...both of them big guys, and then they make me work my *** off.

[gojuman]

Good grief! Could you PLEASE MAKE AN ATTEMPT to put your replies into paragraphs? How about a little attention to some grammar too?

Anyway, what particular "very traditional overseas ASIAN groups" would you be referring to? I think that the Aikikai, Yoseikei, etc are pretty traditional, but they seem to have a few folks over the rank of 5th Dan who are not Asian.

Alain Floquet -- Yoseikan, France, 8th Dan
Patrick Auge - Yoseikan, California(USA), 8th Dan
Georges Stobbaerts -- Butokukai, Portugal, 8th Dan
Amos Parker -- Yoshinkai, USA, 8th Dan
Michel Soulenq - Aikikai, France, 7th Dan
Christian Tissier -- Aikikai, France, 7th Dan
Gerard Blaize -- Aikikai, France, 7th Dan
Christopher Curtis -- Ki-Aikido, Hawaii(USA), 7th Dan
Erhard Altenbrandt, DAB, Germany, 7th Dan
Rolf Brand, DAB, Germany, 7th Dan
Gerhardt Walter, Aikikai, Germany, 7th Dan
Kevin Blok, World Kobudo Federation(Aikido Section), 7th Dan
Giam Pietro Savegango, Aikikai, Italy, 7th Dan
Chuck Clark - Jiyushinkai, Arizona(USA), 7th Dan
Frank Doran - Aikikai, California(USA), 7th Dan
Harvey Konigsberg -- Aikikai, (USA), 7th Dan
Robert Nadeau - Aikikai, California(USA), 7th Dan
Steven Seagal - Aikikai, California(USA), 7th Dan
William Witt - Aikikai, California(USA), 7th dan

How about the Kodokan Judo? That's pretty traditional and I can think of immediately one woman with high rank, Keiko Fukuda, 9th Dan. There is a number of Westerners that hold rank above 6th Dan with the Kodokan.

Anyway, if your organization wants to hold on to it's old ways and discriminates against women, then that is your business. Not really much different in attitude than requiring women to wear a burka.

Rob;
I am not going to get into arguments here. But you clearly want to come off as the politically correct guy. You know as well as I that it's not even a contest when the rubber hits the road. The number of Women in our DOJO out number the men, they are everything from Doctors to Attorneys. So I don't think they feel too discriminated against. They in fact appreciate the fact they can be comfortable knowing they are the weaker sex instead of having a false sense of security and try to go toe to toe with men. They can then train to overcome these differences.

By the way you have two punctuation mistakes, one grammer mistake and one spelling mistake..........go spend some of your extra time you seem to have trying to find them!

Done with this thread, the responses I got will come in handy for our meeting, thanks to all who responded.

[STORMCROW34]

I understand Mr. Carver. Please understand that I'm not trying to start an argument here, it just seems to be improper dojo etiquette to intentionally do that to anyone, regardless if it was the "last guy", or the one before him, etc. To me, it's like telling your uke you're going to take it slow to work on your tsukuri and then throwing him/her as fast and as hard as you can. But like I said, I don't want to create any tension so I'll leave it at that.

On topic: There are many women in our dojo and they are held to the same standards as the men. And like the men, the ones who train consistently are quite capable of handling themselves.

[STORMCROW34]

It is a standing joke at our club.....cos I'm the smallest and I wear glasses...... you know the old saying...you wouldn't hit a girl with glasses would you.

I've even said it to my instructors...both of them big guys, and then they make me work my *** off.

I'm sorry Mandeigh, I guess I completely misunderstood you.
I had this image of you just completely decking some unsuspecting person.

[Webmaster]

By the way you have two punctuation mistakes, one grammer mistake and one spelling mistake..........go spend some of your extra time you seem to have trying to find them!

Please point them out. At least I do not write like I am in third grade. My issue is that I do not have time to read the jibberish that you previously wrote and try to figure out what you are trying to convey. Thank you for at least making an effort this time.

By the way, you are a bigot and I know plenty of women that can go toe to toe with men. You just need to get a clue.