Korean Weapons?

[wtkd]

I currently take taekwondo. My master is offering a weapons class on fridays which I will be attending. I was wondering if a bo staff and nunchakus are really korean weapons. From books I don't think they are but..... Comments?

[Sgathak]

No they are not.
They are Okinawan.
Does your instructor also teach kobudo?

[wtkd]

What is kobudo?

[moogong]

Joe is right but I have a different take on your question. The jang bong (long staff) has been found in various older Korean martial arts. I can not say for sure but I am willing to bet your instructor is not teaching the weapon from one of those arts mindsets but rather than a variation of the Okinawan version. Many (not all) TKD schools have been incorporating the long staff for quite some time so it's very common now days.
As for nunchackus, similiar deal.

[wtkd]

Yeah, that's what I kinda thought.

[DragonMind]

Common Korean weapons:

Bong (stick) - comes in dan (short 10-12"), joong (middle 24-28" similar to Arnis baston), and jang (long usually 6').

Ji Pang E (cane)

Gum/Kum (sword)

Kyo kun (knife)

Po bak (rope)

[rmclain]

I know for sure that the original Jido Kwan and Chang Moo Kwan schools of kong soo do/tang soo do had long staff techniques and forms in their curriculums. Both kwans had instructors that trained in Japan under Sensei Toyama Kanken - who studied in Okinawa from Itosu Yasutsune. Even Yoon Kwye Byung (Jido Kwan) published a book in Japan around 1947 about staff forms and techiques.

But, it would be very rare for someone to legitimately teach these forms and techniques since the push for sport and a uniquely "Korean" art was at the fore in the 1960's.

Probably, someone got these weapons from somewhere else now - another style, seminar, video , book, etc.

R. McLain

[Savage_Insight]

It should be strongly remembered that one: countries in frequent interaction, whether in peace, neutral or other, will always share a very large majority of impliments and other stuff, even art; and two: Although fragments of culture; whether intact fighting styles and family food recipes (YUM, I LOVE Korean food!), or pieces of vast ideologies, do indeed exist and survive past Korea's long Russo-Japanese occupation, it is far, far more likely to find someone who has incorporated techniques/weapons *styles* with the modern idea that martial arts has a cultural identity only in its roots; the mainstream martial artist today will follow the idea that a technique is simply a technique; one finds and discovers what fits the individual best, and pull it into one form.

That having been said, in order to spot if a weapon-style *might* be Korean, consider the following:

Nunchucks are indeed Okinowan, but jointed stick weapons (and simply joined weapons period) are found throughout martial arts. Chinese and Korean traditional forms of using a nunchuck-like weapon (the two-section staff they're called) utilize a larger version with a longer chain used to block and enwrap targets.

The staff is found in nearly every part of the world; what will reveal *what* staff you are dealing with will be found in the construction, shape, and actual use/approach to the weapon. The bo-staff is a name strictly for specific Japanese staff styles; I think they most commonly would have used a staff with one end weighted with lead filling for these, though I'm not sure.
Korea is the only country that I am aware of which specifically teaches lengths as short as six inches to as long as eight feet (affectionately called the "master staff")!
China is the only country I am aware of which teaches forms which emphasize focus on one end, using length as a severe advantage, but most of all, is the only country I'm aware of which deliberately teaches a *flexible* staff in hard *and* soft forms. The soft form is the Tai Chi whip, using a less rigid wood than rattan or oak and is rarely taught. The hard form is taught by Shaolin, or "rat tail" staff. This staff is not tapered, but rather is actually a kind of strong wood which bends and "flops" around like a loose spring or stiff garden hose. Thought the most advanced staff style in its school, this staff requires a great deal of control and is characterized in movies by the ability to bend end to end and then release like a large arrow or ballista bolt.


A few more thoughts below on cultural subtlties.


Korean hard-form martial arts tend to emphasize strong power and speed of mind, body and spirit, and stand apart from Chinese by translating animal power into the "human animal," which means rather than behaving as an animal, they teach the human body to use the same principles that the animal does in the style or technique. A Korean "tiger strike" won't necessarily use a clawed hand, but it will use a feline, total body twist to empower the strike.
Korean styles stand apart from other neighbors such as Japan by having a more emotionally present grace/feel whereas Japanese tend to follow a spiritual/mental presence. In traditional martial arts, a hard-style martial art will tend to follow the beat of its country's martial artists and culture. China stems from a country in dance with the land, creatures/beauty of native life, Korea a dance within the spirit and pride of its people, and Japan a dance in the codes, ethics, thoughts set into the spiritual levels of their beliefs.


Korean internal martial arts are to this day, exceedingly rare, and thought to be nearly extinct by many. A few yet exist, but ones with history over a 100 years are the hardest to find.
Hanmudo is thought as one of the more recent Korean arts which uses some internal philosophy, and is quickly recognized by its utilizing a different approach to the "circle" ideologies, often neutralizing an attack by recieving and turning the entire body to redirect the strike into a throw. Some techniques appear to "assist" the throw by completing a throw and immediately translated into a punch, kick/strike in the same direction of the throw, increasing the distance the opponent is sent.

[asdf]

Korean weapons:

1) Foot
2) Fist
3) Kim chi breath

1+2+3 = formidable opponent

[asdf]

Korean weapons:

1) Foot
2) Fist
3) Kim chi breath

1+2+3 = formidable opponent

Wow, this joke TOTALLY bombed. Give me time... they'll get better, I promise...

[Kwon Pup Maze]

In Korea the Staff and Spear were taught more like a soldier of today is taught the bayonet. Perry, thrust, and blocks. They were traditionally for use on Horseback where a sword would be less useful. The staffs were held more towards the end for longer reach and some schools still teach this in Korea, others have resorted to the ground technique of holding towards the middle and defending 360 degrees. Hey, things change.

The swords of the time were less curved then the calvary swords of today. The swords were used for stabbing and not for slashing like Americans or Japanese with the curved swords. The Japanese Niginata is curved for this same reason.

The rice flail ( nunchucku ) can be found throughout Asia, as can the Sai ,like the one found in the Shalion Temple remains when it was escavated. The Okinawans used the nunchuku and staff because they were prevented from owning weapons made of steel by the Japanese who occupied Okinawa. They converted their farm impliments into weapons and the forms were developed.

The short stick is also found in Japan.

[Kwon Pup Maze]

Some of you might find this informitive

http://www.turtlepress.com/info_korean_weapons.asp

[TEA]

Some of you might find this informitive

http://www.turtlepress.com/info_korean_weapons.asp

Is it just me, or do the lengths of the weapons described seem overly long?

[Kwon Pup Maze]

That's because they were mostly used on horseback or against people on horseback. some were used to fight from castle walls or against castle guards.

I find it interesting how many instructors in the U.S. don't teach the weapons using the full length to their advantage, they teach only from the middle of the weapons.

[DragonMind]

That's because they were mostly used on horseback or against people on horseback. some were used to fight from castle walls or against castle guards.

I find it interesting how many instructors in the U.S. don't teach the weapons using the full length to their advantage, they teach only from the middle of the weapons.

I doubt there is much control or precision, not to mention practicality, of using a twenty-foot bamboo spear. Unless you're filming the sequel to House of Flying Daggers, that is.

[TEA]

That's because they were mostly used on horseback or against people on horseback. some were used to fight from castle walls or against castle guards.

Here are a couple of examples that stood out.

The ssang so do is a six foot five inch long sword from Japan. It is so powerful, that it can cut or break another sword upon striking it. Japanese gunmen also used this sword as a sidearm for close range combat. The ssang so do is also known as the jang do, yong gum or pyung gum.

A six foot sword carried by gunman as a sidearm? From what I know of Japanese swords the oversized ones from the Sengoku period, which were fairly rare, were between four and five feet in length. Remember, the average Japanese male during this time period was only a bit over five feet, so how practical would a six foot sword be?

The ye do is a short sword, four feet four inches in length, that is also known as a dan do. It was used for training soldiers in swordsmanship.(emphasis added)

Four feet is a short sword?

The wol do is a nine foot long crescent sword. Its blade is moon shaped, with a small blade projecting below the main blade. The smaller blade has a feather tied to it. Although a fearsome looking weapon, it was used primarily for practice among infantry soldiers, having been considered too weak for use in battle.

A nine foot sword?

Ki chang is the art of using the jang chang (long spear) on horseback. The spear is fifteen feet long and the cavalry troops often practiced for combat by thrusting the spear into rice straw dummies or participating in duels.

While I know very little about lances, 15' seems like it would be a bit too long to be practical, especially given the relatively short stature of Korean horses.

[Kwon Pup Maze]

I never said they were practical for these days. I do think that they should be learned by people that claim traditional teaching of Korean Weapons.

As for the lengths, the Koreans were not the only ones using weapons of great length. The swords and spears of europe were just as long and can be found in alot of museums throughout the U.S. for up close examination.
The Philadelphia Museum of Art has a several rooms full of these weapons. You can see where European and Asain weapons are very similar by veiwing them.

These were'nt knives for cutting apples, these were weapons of war where distance could be your best friend. I remember the juk jang chang ( long bamboo spear) I used as a child, twenty feet and I was never real tall. I'm 5ft 9 inch now. Of course I was lucky, my parents owned a station-wagon.

[TEA]

Be that as it may, most of the swords I've seen in Korean museums were about 3' long. For this add to say that a 4' sword is a short sword seems way off base.