Difficult Time Adjusting...

[Dark Mage]

I'm new here. (Didn't see an "Introduction" section, so I've been just checking the place out)

A bit of history...
I started in American Freestyle Karate, back in the late 70's. "Earned" my black belt, and then discovered that I was missing the boat, so to speak.
I progressed to Tae Kwon Do, Tang Soo Do, and then Hapkido and earned high ranking in them all.
Still felt like I was missing something and began to study Shaolin Long Fist...
That was a fiasco. I just didn't "feel" it...
Then, in 1990, I began studying Yoshukai.
I thoroughly enjoyed that and received my 3rd kyu. A back injury and some knee surgeries halted my practice, and then I moved back home to Texas.

I have been out of Martial Arts training now for 9 years, and this past October, I finally decided to start back. I found an Aikido school that I really enjoy and am "moving right along".

Here's where my dilema lies.
I am having a hard time adjusting to everything I've always been taught, regarding block and counter with attacks. Aikido is so different than anything I've ever studied, and the concept of "emptying my cup" is really hitting home.
For instance...blocking a punch or kick, and then countering with same, has been the "norm" for me. Now, I'm supposed to be more of a "softer" stylist and show compassion and more control...

How does one make this transition easier? How do I go from "punch and kick" to a more "harmonious" balance?

Just a question...
BTW, Nice forum here. I'm having a good time reading some of the threads/posts here.

[SeiserL]

How does one make this transition easier? How do I go from "punch and kick" to a more "harmonious" balance?

I too came from years in the bashing arts (FMA/JKD) and found the transition difficult.

IMHO, slow down and think about what you are doing without making any reference or comparison to past training. Maintian a beginners mind and form a new mental map about how to enter and blend with an attack.

Do mental rehearsal when not physically training.

Takes a while to change the mind, but its worth the effort.

Hope that helps in some small way.

[don]

I'm new here. (Didn't see an "Introduction" section, so I've been just checking the place out)

Welcome to the forum. Thanks for the intro. (I never even thought of doing that when I began on BBS's.)

Aikido is so different than anything I've ever studied, and the concept of "emptying my cup" is really hitting home.
For instance...blocking a punch or kick, and then countering with same, has been the "norm" for me. Now, I'm supposed to be more of a "softer" stylist and show compassion and more control...

I would make a distinction here between the physical and the moral. If you’re talking about the physical differences between striking arts and aikido, yes, there are some accommodations to be made. But “soft” is a slippery concept.

Ever read "Blink"? Preconceptions rule. I've had Saotome enter a lunge punch and like to take my head off.

Soft my asterisks! We just don't call it a right cross, it's--IRIMI.

Then again, every dojo is different. I’m very glad to train under Saotome and his folk with emphasis on fighting utility.

As to compassion, I cringe anytime I see claims made for the moral superiority of aikido. Folk readily confuse the aspiration with the accomplishment. No art has a lock on proportionate response.

I don't think that aikidoists demonstrates more compassion than is seen in other arts, not that aikidoists are hypocrites, just that the striking folks aren’t all brutes. Aikido goes too far with the hype in my estimation. It's no sin to be effective. And rankly, if you apply aikido technique on a determined opponent, you will likely hurt him much more than a simple KO would.

It might be of interest that there is quite a literature devoted to killing bad guys out of compassion for their karma. Compassion is not meant to dictate weak technique.

Hope this is food for thought.

[rgoad]

May I suggest a heresy? Don't think of it as a Martial art, think of it as a dance or just movement. Yes, yes, yes, it is a martial art. But to get your body to relax and perform the movements it needs to empty the cup, as you said, of it's conditioned responses. That can be harder than conscious movement. You'll need to trick you body for a while, then you will begin to absorb the principles and incorporate them with what you already know.

There is a beginner waiting for his third class in about an hour. He took Shotokan before nad you can see it in his stances whenever he is preparing to work with another person. I did the same thing. It happens to all of us.

Good luck and HAVE FUN!

[Erik]

If your mind can differentiate between kicking/punching vs. wrestling, then consider aikido to be wrestling, at first.

You'll get used to it and no longer have to think of it as wrestling.

If that fails, go a few rounds with a decent MMA guy and you'll really experience the difference between striking (like shooting a bow) and grappling (getting up close and personal). It ought to help you separate in your mind the differences.

[Dark Mage]

Thanks for all of the sound advice. I appreciate it.

[Flipping Good Time]

Just stick with it and eventually your body will become more conditioned to responding in the ways you are taught. Obviously the reflexive reactions you obtained through years of training in other arts won't just go away, but that isn't a bad thing. As long as you can refrain from kicking or punching your training partners and hold back your gut reactions, you'll be fine.

[Xuzen]

Howard,

You come from a background of striking arts where their strategies are different from that of aikido. Give it some time, you are learning some stuff that are completely alien to your body.

[Peter Rehse]

What style of Aikido are you practicing?

What you will find is that the more emphasis your teacher puts on the basics (correct stance and movement) the more counter intuitive Aikido will feel in the beginning. The same was true for the striking arts I practiced. Years of training in another style often is no different than years of training in nothing. All I can advise is try to think back to the time you first started MA - I guarantee your frustration level will be less.

Richard that's not a heresy - its a truism. I often compare Aikido to dance. Watch how serious a top level dancer takes their role. You dance Giselle you must become a 16 year old pack of naivity; you dance Carmen you must become a 26 year old pack of trouble. Same with Budo.

[rgoad]

Richard that's not a heresy - its a truism. I often compare Aikido to dance. Watch how serious a top level dancer takes their role. You dance Giselle you must become a 16 year old pack of naivity; you dance Carmen you must become a 26 year old pack of trouble. Same with Budo.

Wow! This reminds me of a line from the movie Tombstone when Ringo and Doc Holiday are cursing each other in Latin and Holiday remarks, "So, an educated man. Now I know I hate him." But my reaction is admiration.

[Dark Mage]

What style of Aikido are you practicing?

What you will find is that the more emphasis your teacher puts on the basics (correct stance and movement) the more counter intuitive Aikido will feel in the beginning. The same was true for the striking arts I practiced. Years of training in another style often is no different than years of training in nothing. All I can advise is try to think back to the time you first started MA - I guarantee your frustration level will be less.

Richard that's not a heresy - its a truism. I often compare Aikido to dance. Watch how serious a top level dancer takes their role. You dance Giselle you must become a 16 year old pack of naivity; you dance Carmen you must become a 26 year old pack of trouble. Same with Budo.

Aikikai is the style, although it has been a bit "modified".
Actually, it's called American Kobudo Ryu which is based on Aikikai.

[DragonMind]

Forgive me, but isn't Aikikai an organization rather than a style of Aikido? http://www.aikikai.or.jp/eng/index.htm

[Ron Tisdale]

American Kobudo Ryu? Yikes. I think you should first find out if you really want to learn AIKIDO. Then, if that is what you want, do a CAREFULL search for someone with a legitimate claim to teaching it.

Best,
Ron (this is only my opinion, I could be wrong)

[Dark Mage]

American Kobudo Ryu? Yikes. I think you should first find out if you really want to learn AIKIDO. Then, if that is what you want, do a CAREFULL search for someone with a legitimate claim to teaching it.

Best,
Ron (this is only my opinion, I could be wrong)

I knew it wouldn't take long for that...


Here's the deal.
I live in East Texas, and this is as close as I can get to a "real" school.
I was wary, (and still am), but I'm learning some decent techniques and getting a good workout.

And with the experience I already have, I find much of the stuff I am learning to be applicable and valid...

[Ron Tisdale]

Hey, if you're happy, and getting what you want, go for it.

I do hope you have a chance to ... broaden your aikido experience some time. Can you say what rank your instructor is and from whom he recieved it (in aikido)?

Best,
Ron

[Dark Mage]

Yes.
He is just a Shodan, and he received it from the AKR Aikido Dojo in Greenville.
He is an ex-police officer and ex-Marine and seems to know what he's doing. But...Well, if it came down to it, in a "real" situation, I think I could take him...:lol:

[TonyU]

ex-Marine

No such thing.

[Ron Tisdale]

Oh, I have no doubts that he is tough enough...but that in and of itself says NOTHING about the quality of his aikido...especially if he wasn't even taught by someone actually ranked and trained in one of the major organizations. Which by itself doesn't mean a whole lot either, sometimes (take my aikido for instance ).

I can hit pretty hard, and take a fair shot...but if someone asked me to teach them aikido, I'd send them to my teacher.

There's a guy here in pa that ranked himself 8th dan. Still can't find out where he actually TRAINED in aikido. Now exactly how is this 8th dan supposed to TEACH aikido? Mind you, the guy is fit, fairly large, knows how to grapple and fight. But I wouldn't go to him to learn AIKIDO.

Best,
Ron

[Dark Mage]

No such thing.

Ya got me there...

I don't have any doubts that my instructor is good, and he does have the ability to teach.

But...I will, when time and location permits, find a school where I will feel more comfortable.
Until then, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, and I am going to learn all I can from him.

[wab25]

I always judge people individually. Sure, knowing where they learned, and their group history helps give you an idea.... But think of it this way. Just because you learn from him, and get ranked by him, does that make you a poor martial artist? I mean with all your other training, and work ethic and experience, you are still a good martial artist, taking a class from the best available, in the area. It may not be "aikido" in the truest sense, but it is still martial arts. I afford him the same benefit of the doubt. I know plenty of martial artists who surpassed those that taught them. Conversly, even if a person has the most legitimate rank, I still judge them individually......