Survey: Students or Owner clean the Dojo?

**hal9000** · 02-17-2006, 21:05

I searched threads to see if this subject has been entertained already, nearly everything else has been! Please pardon if this is redundant.

I was wondering what percentage of Sensei's require or ask for additional non-practice time from the students to clean the Dojo.? I'm referring dry mopping hardwood floors, wet mopping wood with oil soap, bleach & water wiping of mats, bags, etc. More than just a vacuum or sweep of the lobby carpet and pickup of debris, and empty trash containers.

Especially relevant is the case where the Sensei is the only principal instructor with another full time occupation, and he/she is the Dojo owner. Should paying students be expected to spear-head the cleaning duties, or should the owner contract it out or do it him/her self?

Also, what are the philosophical differences between the West and East regarding the answers?

Thank You.

**Rasputin** · 02-17-2006, 23:08

Whether the instructor requires it or not from his students, they should feel a desire to help out with things like this. If he feels more comfortable hiring someone to come and clean the place rather than his students, more power to him.

I am 100% of the opinion that the instructor should not be in there cleaning by himself, not as long as a single student is aware of it.

**Prince Loeffler** · 02-18-2006, 00:24

Originally Posted by Rasputin

Whether the instructor requires it or not from his students, they should feel a desire to help out with things like this. If he feels more comfortable hiring someone to come and clean the place rather than his students, more power to him.

I am 100% of the opinion that the instructor should not be in there cleaning by himself, not as long as a single student is aware of it.

All I can say is that the instructor SHOULD NOT be cleaning up after the students WHO ARE SLOBS. Yes, I am talking about leaving empty water bottles, papers / magazine, urinating the toilet's rim, candy wrappers under the seats, cigarret butts in the parking lot and not putting equiptments back where they belong.... and there's more but I don't want to make a rant of an epic proportion

**Cliff Hargrave** · 02-18-2006, 01:53

I think is depends on the type of school. If it's a "club" type place, where the instructor is teaching part time, only charging a nominal fee to cover expenses, then everyone should chip in and help. I don't believe it should be forced though. Maybe a break in the fees or extra lessons for those that do. I don't believe in the servitude thing.

If it's a full time commercial school, with current market rate fees, then they should be contracting it out to a professional cleaning service anyway.

**John Lucas** · 02-18-2006, 09:34

from a student perspective, if I could get breaks in the fees or extra lessons like Cliff suggested than I would be more than happy to help out, I would clean the whole place myself.

**dao** · 02-18-2006, 09:55

I like the idea of offering a price break for those who help out. However, personally
between working, commuting (I have a commute from hell), taking academic classes, and dealing with all my Drs. (long story there) - I don't have the time. I'd rather pay someone extra and have it taken care of for me at this point.

**WhiteBeltJones** · 02-18-2006, 10:06

I agree with Cliff. In a club like mine, or Rasputin's, where it is non profit, students should take on responsibilities of upkeep and the like. If I'm shelling out 120 bucks a month like my friend at the commercial TKD school, I'm gonna expect the place to be run and maintained like a health club.

**TKDGURL** · 02-19-2006, 00:56

I clean our Dojang by myself. I get a tuition break but Our instructor is always saying this is my school everything here is MINE but the turn around and tell us that the school is ours and we need to step it up.

**DragonMind** · 02-19-2006, 21:12

Interesting question. There are different issues involved with non-profits/clubs and a commercial operation. Commercial operators have to be concerned with worker's comp insurance on employees. Asking for labor can make people employees whether you pay them or not.

**Ninjalord** · 02-21-2006, 23:18

I think that the student should help regardless, simply for the reason that having the students keep the school clean encourages cleanleness in other aspects of thier life. Especially the younger students. Renshi, once a week would have the younger students clean the whole school, top to bottom, more as an excersize than actual cleaning. I thought that was a very good idea. And when my nephew and niece are old enough to start training, I fully intend to have them maintiain the training area/room, as I will not have an actual school to train them in. As far as the adult students go, they should be kind enough to clean up after themselves if they make a mess.

**DragonMind** · 02-22-2006, 14:23

Originally Posted by Ninjalord

I think that the student should help regardless, simply for the reason that having the students keep the school clean encourages cleanleness in other aspects of thier life. Especially the younger students. Renshi, once a week would have the younger students clean the whole school, top to bottom, more as an excersize than actual cleaning. I thought that was a very good idea. And when my nephew and niece are old enough to start training, I fully intend to have them maintiain the training area/room, as I will not have an actual school to train them in. As far as the adult students go, they should be kind enough to clean up after themselves if they make a mess.

In a commercial operation, it can also cause resentment and student loss. I can see requiring personal cleanliness and cleaning up after yourself, but mandatory maid duty makes no sense. In a setting like you're describing for your family, it may work easier because the kids will feel a sense of "ownership" of the dojo that you don't have with a commercial school.

**Ninjalord** · 02-22-2006, 21:29

Originally Posted by DragonMind

In a commercial operation, it can also cause resentment and student loss. I can see requiring personal cleanliness and cleaning up after yourself, but mandatory maid duty makes no sense. In a setting like you're describing for your family, it may work easier because the kids will feel a sense of "ownership" of the dojo that you don't have with a commercial school.

I can understand your point about resentment and student loss. When I was a kid I hated being told I had to clean anything, much less a place I did not live at. But in the long run it was worth it, because I am now a very clean person because of the stuff my parents and my instructors drilled into me as a kid. And that's the point I was trying to get across. Not so much as mandatory maid duty, but rather a sense of responsability.

**DragonMind** · 02-23-2006, 10:22

Originally Posted by Ninjalord

I can understand your point about resentment and student loss. When I was a kid I hated being told I had to clean anything, much less a place I did not live at. But in the long run it was worth it, because I am now a very clean person because of the stuff my parents and my instructors drilled into me as a kid. And that's the point I was trying to get across. Not so much as mandatory maid duty, but rather a sense of responsability.

I agree 100% with your goal; I'm not sure that's the best way to go about it in a commercial setting.

**Oniw17** · 02-23-2006, 14:15

Actual cleaning(walls, windows, and such) should be done by the owner. And in my opinion, the students should clean up(sweep,mop, ect.) after classes.

**s.henson** · 02-23-2006, 14:37

I clean the dojo as well as paint, fix lights, unclog toilets, do the taxes, and any other job that needs doing. But no one asked me to open this school, it was a decision I made knowing before hand that I would be the one responsible for those things. On occasion when a child is waiting for their parent to finish class I will have them do little things, but since this is a buisness I can't see making the students clean. I do however expect them to clean up behind themselves and put equipment in it's place (which has been said already).

**AikidoLady2005** · 03-08-2006, 20:56

After everyclass, all students either sweep, vacuum, and dust the dojo. Once every two weeks we clean the mat. Once a year we do a big deep cleaning and everyone helps out. Where I live, it's only employment for worker's comp purposes if they are receiving some sore of compensation in return (like free classes) otherwise they are simply volunteers.

**Gene Williams** · 03-08-2006, 22:29

In a traditional dojo, students clean the dojo. Only dan may clean and straighten the shinza. I used to assign duties on a rotating basis, but once I had a few seniors, they set the example and everyone automatically pitched in. It is just part of it. I never allowed food, gum, candy or soft drinks in the dojo, anyway, so that was never a problem

**WhiteBeltJones** · 03-08-2006, 22:43

Originally Posted by Gene Williams

I never allowed food, gum, candy or soft drinks in the dojo, anyway, so that was never a problem

Why am I having flashbacks to the scene in Full Metal Jacket, where Private Pyle gets caught sneaking a jelly donut?

**kozak** · 04-05-2006, 09:20

I make my students clean the mat after class. I do the rest during the week, clean toilet, windows etc...

**gr455h0pp3r** · 04-05-2006, 12:43

I dont know much about this, If my sensei asked me if I would like to clean his dojo I would definatly make an effort.
I see Karate dojos having cleaning days, and have seen/heard about higher level students devoting their time to maintaining the dojo.
If I had a dojo I would probably ask if students wanted to help, but if they didnt that would be fine. But they certainly couldnt get away from it forever

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