Can you slip punches?

[Jeff C.]

I greatly enjoy watching footage of Ali; fortunately I can almost always find something on Direct TV in the evenings to get my Ali fix.

I have a technical question: if you have someone who is great at bobbing and weaving, do you then go downstairs to the body? It seems that is a much harder target to defend in that manner.

Jeff Cook

[Gene Williams]

It is harder than you would think to get to a good boxer's body effectively. He crouches, keeps his arms and elbows in front of him, and keeps you off balance with jabs, but yes.

[ezzthetic]

I greatly enjoy watching footage of Ali; fortunately I can almost always find something on Direct TV in the evenings to get my Ali fix.

I have a technical question: if you have someone who is great at bobbing and weaving, do you then go downstairs to the body? It seems that is a much harder target to defend in that manner.

I'm not sure how to read your question. The bobber'n'weaver would want by all means for the presumably taller opponent to reach down and expose himself to the big shots upstairs. Otherwise, a weave or bob will easily lead into a bodyshot, which you can use to open any kind of combination.

If you are fighting a bobber'n'weaver, you'll want feint and hit the guy at the point where he is farthest away from a neutral position with a punch thrown very straight and meant to hit, with minimal required body weight committed. Once you connect, you can open up and rip him with uppercuts and hooks. In between pump a closed jab into his face. Sidestep and/or pivot after unloading heavier punches.

Of course, there is no generic way to fight every blend of fighter employing bob'n'weave, this is merely one such suggestion.

[Gene Williams]

It is harder than you would think to get to a good boxer's body effectively. He crouches, keeps his arms and elbows in front of him, and keeps you off balance with jabs, but yes.

Dadi and I cross posted

[jjaje]

The dream fights between Ali, Tyson and Marciano may happen - in cyberspace at least - one day.

http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hp&cf=prev&id=1808405668

"Premise - Rocky VI: After a "computer fight" between aging ex-champ Rocky Balboa (Stallone) and current champ Mason Dixon leads to Rocky's victory, Rocky returns to the ring once more to take the champ on for real"

(Feb 2007 I heard is the release date)

I'd pick Ali over Tyson also.

[Kevin]

There already was something like that decades ago with Marciano and Ali.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sup...rciano_vs._Ali

[Gene Williams]

There already was something like that decades ago with Marciano and Ali.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sup...rciano_vs._Ali

I thought I remembered something like that. Very interesting.

[Dale Lackey]

playing devils' advocate; Ali was great but he also took alot of shots to the head even considering the number of matches he did during his career which was also impressive. He would allow people to wear themselves out on him so to speak.

[STORMCROW34]

In my humble opinion. Ali could have a hard time with a prime Tyson. Tyson had very good footwork and body movement that is often overlooked...But at the end of the day, If Ali could weather an early Tyson onslaught and keep him at the end of his jab, Ali would frustrate Tyson and pick him apart in later rounds. BUT, if Ali gets caught with one or two of those Tyson hooks...anything can happen. Tyson had unnatural power and visciousness while in his prime.

Marciano had a level of tenacity we just don't see much anymore. The man NEVER quit...but I think Ali would stay on his bike and also keep Rocky at the end of his jab...but like Tyson, if Marciano gets inside, there could be serious trouble for Ali.

But it's pure speculation...I would give my right arm to see either of these fights!

[Yang Wei Xin]

Ali in his prime would have beat any man in existence now or ever before as long as it was with boxing rules.

Maybe thats a little exaggerated, but dude, watch that video again, Ali definitely had some of that "heavenly glory" working for him.

[Gene Williams]

We possibly will never see the like of Ali again. What history and circumstances produced him, who knows? Aside from his boxing skills, he was bright, witty, good looking, had a sense of humor and did not take himself too seriously. If he had come along today, the religion/army thing would not have been an issue, but if he had come along today, he wouldn't be Ali. We should just be grateful we were able to experience him and thank whatever socio/historical accidents produced him.

[Ramirez]

Yes, Ali once he got a bit older tended to rely on his ability to take a punch but when he was younger he mostly avoided that.

The one boxer whose looping left hook he couldn't pick up was Frazier. Norton also gave him fits for some reason.

As for Ali VS. Tyson - well that is hard to say because of the different eras, my opinion is Ali would have handled Tyson the same way he handled all big punchers like Liston and Foreman.

Still though who really knows. Cus D'Amato could have found a way to cut the ring off from Ali, on the other hand Ali was a great strategist himself and could have neutralized Tyson's power, he also had a great trainer/manager -Angelo Dundee.

[STORMCROW34]

Yes, Ali once he got a bit older tended to rely on his ability to take a punch but when he was younger he mostly avoided that.

The one boxer whose looping left hook he couldn't pick up was Frazier. Norton also gave him fits for some reason.

As for Ali VS. Tyson - well that is hard to say because of the different eras, my opinion is Ali would have handled Tyson the same way he handled all big punchers like Liston and Foreman.

Still though who really knows. Cus D'Amato could have found a way to cut the ring off from Ali, on the other hand Ali was a great strategist himself and could have neutralized Tyson's power, he also had a great trainer/manager -Angelo Dundee.

Both Tyson and Marciano had very good hooks...Tysons hooks were unparalled in timing and power. Which is why, (along with the previously mentioned variables) I think Ali would not have an easy day with either fighter. Was Ali great? Of course! But other fighters today are just as good, if not better at slipping punches. Floyd Mayweather and Pernell Whitaker immediately come to mind.

[Ramirez]

Both Tyson and Marciano had very good hooks...Tysons hooks were unparalled in timing and power. Which is why, (along with the previously mentioned variables) I think Ali would not have an easy day with either fighter. Was Ali great? Of course! But other fighters today are just as good, if not better at slipping punches. Floyd Mayweather and Pernell Whitaker immediately come to mind.

I am having this same argument with Dadi on another thread and seriously, I think the only way to know for sure would be to get both in their prime , strap on the gloves and go 15 rounds. This discussion can never really be settled.

Who would have guessed that Buster Douglas would have knocked out Tyson? The same way a journeyman boxer like Norton always gave Ali problems or Ali himself knocked out Foreman who looked like a force of nature.

[Cliff Hargrave]

playing devils' advocate; Ali was great but he also took alot of shots to the head even considering the number of matches he did during his career which was also impressive. He would allow people to wear themselves out on him so to speak.

Similar to the best home run hitters also leading in strike outs. While his hands down - head movement stuff worked, he was bound to take some hits along the way. It's just impossible to dodge every singe one.

[Luebbers]

I love watching old clips of Ali slipping punches. He was especially known for keeping his hands down and still not getting marked up too bad - he was pretty, remember. I think I saw a Nike commercial once where they edited in his daughter as his opponent, and I think it might have been the Terrell fight. It was her constantly throwing combinations and him constantly slipping - something about trying to catch up to a legacy. I don't know. Nike should stop making shoes and just do commercials full time.

[Jeff Burger]

Yeah thats sweet footage.

I have always beena big Ali fan.
I dont know about match ups from different times. Tyson in his prime was pretty good.

Going to the body.
Like said its not that easy.
When you punching to the head your punchng arm can still protect your head.
The plan of going to the body to bring his hands down so you can go to the head requires you bring your own hands down to his body.

Against a good slipper / bobber I like to rush / corner them, smother their speed.

Against a good body puncher. I like the uppercut (BANG get back up here and box with me).
If they are hitting the body they arent going backwards as Ali was in that video. They are most likely slipping or bobbing.
For this I like to leave the punch they went under out there to stop them from coming back up.
You can set up some good shots that way.