Sogawa's aiki no jutsu book

**Tatsujin** · 05-22-2006, 13:26

Hi there,

Who has read this book http://www.budovideos.com/shop/custo...oductid=16496?

I've ordered it,and googled the name of Kazuoki Sogawa,whose lineage is unverified according to some people.

what is your opinion on the book,and is their representation of aiki-no-jutsu correct,or is it just some softer Daito-ryu shoden?

Thanks in advance,

**aplonis** · 05-22-2006, 15:53

I ordered it too. It will be interesting to compare against what I remember from my single year studying Takeda-ha Aiki-no-jutsu. I haven't taken Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu, but I can definitely state that the Takeda-ha variant is much more vicious than Hakko Ryu Jujutsu, which I have also studied. Every technique was aimed at incurring maximum damage to the opponent with zero consideration to means of subduing without permanent injury. That is the very reason I did not like it. I'd much rather subdue and dissuade than maim or kill as it is proportionately less likely to require intervention with courts, lawyers and an unsympathetic jury.

Gan Uesli Starling
Western Michigan Tae Kwon Do
Kalamazoo Chapter
http://wmtkd.us

**Tatsujin** · 05-24-2006, 01:29

My interest in the book is to comapre it against someone like okamoto for example.From your comments on Takeda aiki-no-jutsu,it sounds more like hard jujutsu to me!how is it different compared to the ikkajo-waza in mainline Daito-ryu for example?

**Jose Garrido** · 05-25-2006, 10:10

Dear Mr. Ossel

Eventhough I personally believe that you cannot really understand a technique unless you experience it.

You may want to see the techniques in motion instead of statically in a book. Stanley Pranin at www.aikidojournal.com has some good DVD's on Okamoto sensei and the people at www.Budovideos.com have plenty of DVD's on Sogawa sensei. This might be a better way to compare.

You may want to be aware that Mr. Sogawa's lineage is in question.

Yours in Budo,
Jose Garrido

**Tatsujin** · 05-25-2006, 16:28

Dear Mr. Garrido,

I am well aware off all the points you mentioned;i've ordered stuff of Sogawa in order to compare it in motion,altough i'm told his movements are akin to aikido and he isn't really capable in aiki no jutsu.

**Jose Garrido** · 05-28-2006, 16:12

I had an opportunity this weekend to see some videos by Sogawa sensei and Okamoto sensei. There is no comparison at all.

Sogawa sensei to me IMHO looks like aikido with some locks taken from (possibly) DTR. But the general feel of the movements visually are that of a modern aikido based style.

But again, a true evaluation can only be made by experiencing the technique first hand. As a Kodokai BB and a current student of Kondo sensei, my opinion is that there is no aiki no jutsu in Sogawa sensei's techniques. This again is only an observation based on the video.

True AIKI must be experienced.........

Jose Garrido

**Tatsujin** · 05-29-2006, 02:38

Thank your for the evaluation

I awaiting my deliverry for the okamoto and sogawa videos,so i can see for myself.Does he mentions aiki no jutsu in the video('s) you saw?
I could get hold on Sogawa's A-Z series(5 videó's) for 25 euro,an offer difficult to resist and it gives me an excellent chance for an overview i think

**Jose Garrido** · 05-29-2006, 18:36

Thomas,

If you can pick-up the 5 videos for 25euro's......why not.

There are some interesting and some normal aikido techniques in the videos along with some kicking in the 5th video. Enjoy....

I tend to collect everything so that i can see what to do and what not to do.

Jose' Garrido

**Jose Garrido** · 05-29-2006, 18:39

Just one more thing. You haven't posted where you are located, but if you are close to New Jersey of in it you are welcome to come to our dojo and experience DTR with our study group.

Jose Garrido

**Tatsujin** · 05-30-2006, 02:42

Hi Jose,

I'm living in The Netherlands,but thanx anyway for the offer

I'm actually contemplating to study Roppokai in Denmark,which isn't too far away..

**Jose Garrido** · 05-30-2006, 05:47

Thomas,
If your choice was between the Saigo-Ha nad the Roppokai then IMHO you have made a wise choice.

Good luck with your studies of DTR Roppokai and welcome to the DTR community.

Jose Garrido

**Tatsujin** · 05-30-2006, 09:20

Well i didn't wager between Roppokai or Saigo-ha...

it's just that i'm interested in the book,of which the say it contains the aiki no jutsu-level......

But i'm still contemplating into actual studying Roppokai,i certainly would like too,but i'm still considering the possibilities and the oppurtunity to do so.

**Tatsujin** · 06-03-2006, 14:28

I received the book yesterday and i do find the title of the book misleading,since it contains no aiki no jutsu at all;it's foremost a jujutsu book.It does depict interesting locks and diagrams though,and contains some pressure-point stuff as well.

So it's a nice book if you like intricate and sometimes artfull locking an throwing,but not aikijutsu

**aplonis** · 06-03-2006, 17:43

I too received the book and am fairly well pleased with it. I find it will suit a particular purpose I have owing to there being lots of good, well-angled closeups among the many photos.

I have in mind to use it as a re-inforcing argument for variations on the otherwise counter-intuitive (to TKD folks, anyway) least-three-fingers grip. That in particular, at first.

Our org, Western Michigan Tae Kwon Do is widely eclectic as to what it teaches. Testing requirements are almsot exclusively TKD & TSD. But our main concern is self-defense. So in addition to largely ignoring olympic sparring rules, we also teach, per the GM's own requirement...anything at all provided it works. This varies from one school to another within the org because it relies upon ranking students with prior experience in non-TKD arts to bring in those cross-over techniques.

So in our particular chapter it falls to me to share some things from my own past training in jujutsu. And it can be complicated to explain the subtleties of just how to grasp, and why. I can't help but wonder if some folks might tune out just a bit when I rant on about gripping more with the pinky and hardly (or even not at all) with the index. Toward the aim of drilling that home, the photos in this book will be very helpful indeed.

Knowing already much of what is being shown I find the photos very instructive. But I can as easily imagine just how enigmatic they'd be had I not the benefit of having received instruction. I'd certainly have to agree with other's who have insisted that you can't learn jujutsu solely out of a book.

Gan Uesli Starling
Western Michigan Tae Kwon Do
Kalamazoo Chapter
http://wmtkd.us

**johan smits** · 02-22-2007, 09:44

Thomas,

If I am not mistaken their is an aikibudo teacher in The Netherlands who has a Daito-ryu studygroup under Kondo sensei.
You should be abel to find him on the net.

best,

Johan Smits