Ji Do Kwan

[TEA]

I'm posting this in the General KMA forum since a few Ji Do Kwan schools are Tang Soo Do affiliated instead of Tae Kwon Do affiliated.

If you belong to a Ji Do Kwan school, whats your lineage? Where did the Korean master who started your lineage in the US first start teaching? What affiliations does your school have?


It seems like there are quite a few Ji Do Kwan schools out there and I think it would be interesting to see how many share common roots and what the various lineages are.

My lineage goes back to Choi Bong-young, who first started teaching Tae Kwon Do in Berkeley in the '60s. I'm WTF Taekwondo affiliated.

[howard]

Hi Joe, I can give you a partial response...

I stopped training in Ji Do Kwan about 6 years ago mainly because of some physical problems that made it very difficult for me to kick without pain, but while I trained in the art, my last school was the Karate Institute, run by Master Henry Cho (Cho Si Hak), in New York City.

Master Cho is said to have been the first person to open a Korean Karate school in the US, in NYC.

I don't know anything about his lineage, but while I was at his school, it was in independent organization, as far as I know. I never heard any mention of it being part of any other MA organizations. I do recall that he had several satellite schools, including one in Puerto Rico and, I believe, one in Venezuela.

I believe you know Rick Fine down there in Austin... Rick's teacher and Master Cho are good friends from what I understand.

Take care, Howard

[TEA]

Master Cho is said to have been the first person to open a Korean Karate school in the US, in NYC.

Do you know what year that was?

[Joseph Svinth]

According to his web site, that was in 1961. http://www.henrycho.com/hcho.html

He probably taught some classes in Illinois, though, while attending college there (1958-1961).

As for being the first, Jhoon Rhee started teaching Ji Do Kwan karate in San Marcos, Texas, in 1958 -- and I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that there were folks teaching someplace even earlier than that. At the other extreme, by 1962, the Koreans were starting to crop up everywhere.

[howard]

According to his web site, that was in 1961. http://www.henrycho.com/hcho.html

He probably taught some classes in Illinois, though, while attending college there (1958-1961).

As for being the first, Jhoon Rhee started teaching Ji Do Kwan karate in San Marcos, Texas, in 1958 -- and I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that there were folks teaching someplace even earlier than that. At the other extreme, by 1962, the Koreans were starting to crop up everywhere.

Joseph, thanks for the clarification. That would make sense.

Perhaps what I've heard is that he had the first Korean Karate school in NYC. As I said, I'm not entirely sure.

Master Cho used to host an annual open tournament in NYC. One year one of my Ji Do Kwan instructors at another school, Carlos Farrell, finished second in the free fighting part of the tournament. The winner was Chuck Norris. I believe that was around 1965, but I'm not sure of the exact date.

Master Cho used to have a large photo from that match hanging on the wall in his office. Carlos was one of Master Cho's early students and earned 6th dan from him. He was in his late fifties when I trained under him (mid 90s), and he could still free fight like somebody thirty years younger. Master Cho has produced some very good fighters over the years.

Regards, Howard

[TEA]

Joe, thanks for the link and post about Joon Rhee. Good info in the link and I always forget that Joon Rhee is a Ji Do Kwan guy.

These guys origins are Hawai'i in the '70s.
World Jidokwan Federation They claim to be "the" main representatives of Jidokwan in the US, which seems a bit pretenscious to me, given that GM Cho and Joon Rhee outrank anyone they have listed in there organization.

This site is run by a student of my original instructor, Sean Owen, who I was able to get back in touch with after finding this site. From what I've read about other Jidokwan lineages, it seems like Choi Bong-young was a bit outside the mainstream with his hostility to tournament fighting.
North Hampton Taekwondo

[TEA]

So, no other Ji Do Kwan students out there?

[Gae-Bek]

Our Ji Do Kwan lineage (at the Warhawk Karate Club, in Whitewater, WI) has a complicated past.

Our club was started in 1991, by my instructor who was a student of Bob Lieker. Mr. Leiker's style was a combination of Ji Do Kwan Taekwondo and Goju Karate. Of course, with our subsequent unfriendly separation from Mr. Leiker (1996), our ability to discern our lineage for either Taekwondo or Karate disappeared.

As I graduated college and moved to Milwaukee, I studied with Master Charles Eggert at the SW Suburban YMCA. I then introduced Trent Norrell (the new instructor of the WKC) to Master Eggert (1999). Mr. Norrell has since (through our connections with Master Eggert) gone-up to a 4th Dan himself, thus giving us "legit" Ji Do Kwan roots.

So, as for our original Ji Do Kwan roots, I have no idea. Apparently Mr. Leiker doesn't even tell his high-ranking Black Belts very much, so I do not know which Korean Master his lineage is through.

However, Master Charles Eggert was a student of Grandmaster Chom Son Cho, who opened his first school in Milwaukee, WI, in 1973.

On a side note, I wonder if break-offs (from associations/grandmasters/etc) also happen frequently in Korea and Japan, or if that's just an American "thing"...

[TEA]

However, Master Charles Eggert was a student of Grandmaster Chom Son Cho, who opened his first school in Milwaukee, WI, in 1973.

On a side note, I wonder if break-offs (from associations/grandmasters/etc) also happen frequently in Korea and Japan, or if that's just an American "thing"...

So, GM Cho is Jidokwan?

As for the break-offs, yes they are common in Japan and Korea. Pretty much all of the various Ryu, Kan, and Kwan were started by someone who broke off from some other Ryu, Kan or Kwan. And as for bad blood politics and factionalism, plenty of that throughout both Japanese and Korean history.

[TEA]

I asked this in the TKD thread on training in Korea but didn't get an answer.

Does anyone know where the first/main Ji Do Kwan dojang was located after the Korean War? Was it in the same location as the former Yun Mu Kwan (Yun Kwei-byun changed the name in 1950) that was built before the war (1931 or 1946)? I'm assuming (we all know the dangers of that) that the original structure didn't survive the Korean War, as the city had changed hands something like five times during the war and was virtually destroyed by the end of the war. Since the original structure was a wooden building, I think it unlikely that it would have survived the war. So, where did they rebuild if they did rebuild or where was the original Yun Mu Kwan dojang if they didn't have to rebuild?

Choi Bong-young told me that he had started training back in the early '50s right after the war at the Ji Do Kwan dojang in Ulchiro Sa-ga that he took me to train in. This would have been at about the same time period or shortly after as Yun Kwei-byung brought the Ji Do Kwan back from Pusan. The Ulchiro Sa-ga dojang looked like a pretty old building, but more of a post-Korean War structure than the colonial era structure in the 1947 picture of the Yun Mu Kwan dojang pictured in the Eric Madis' article that I have. Does anyone know how many Ji Do Kwan dojang were built in Seoul after the war?

[rouse]

Hi Joe:
I have a Korean friend that started out in a Ji Do Kwan school in Korea prior to going to Yong-in University. I'll ask him if he knows much about the "early days". I wouldn't get my hopes up to high just yet if I were you, but it won't hurt to ask.

Johnnie Rouse

[TEA]

Thanks. While you're at it, ask him if he knew Choi Bong-young "back in the day" if you don't mind.

[rouse]

Thanks. While you're at it, ask him if he knew Choi Bong-young "back in the day" if you don't mind.

I'll Do that Joe.

Please keep in mind that I'm dealing with a younger (33)korean Master. and there seems to be some adversion from him about to much history(Kwan) talk.

He thinks that it has an adverse effect on "unity". I'll get him over the hurdle.

BTW My 34YO son lives in Austin too.

Johnnie Rouse

[RickMatz]

I trained with Won Chik Park in the mid 70's when I was a kid, in the Detroit area. I believe he's since moved to Texas.

[rmclain]

I trained with Won Chik Park in the mid 70's when I was a kid, in the Detroit area. I believe he's since moved to Texas.

Grandmaster Park Won-chik has a school in Fort Worth, Texas. Very nice gentleman. He's promoting WTF TKD now (Tae Guek forms, and the KTA/WTF Yudansha forms from 1967), olympic sparring , etc. He's not teaching the Jido Kwan curriculum anymore.

Grandmaster Kim Soo in Houston, Texas started training in Seoul, Korea during the Korean War Time. He can give you lots of information about different school locations and movement during those early years. His web site is http://www.kimsookarate.com He's very open and friendly. You should e-mail or call.


R. McLain

[Raydog]

Carlos Farrell fought Chuck Norris at S Henry Cho's Tournament in 1968 - and some of us thought he won that contest - I've seen that picture you are talking about and it shows Carlos scoring a roundhouse kick to Norris's abdomen - but the point wasn't called ? that contest was for the Grand Championship -Norris won first place in middleweight and Carlos Farrell Won first place in the heavyweight Division.

Btw where and when did you study with Carlos Farrell - I would love to be able to reconnect with him -He was my first instructor from 1966 to 1969 !! (lost track of him in the mid 80's) - do you know if he is still teaching ?

[Marc]

Hello guys, I was a S.Henry Cho student from 77 to the later half of the 80's. I came across this thread and it brought back a lot of memories. As I recalled it Master Jhoon Rhee was the first to teach Korean Karate in the U.S. He did so in 1959 at a university in Texas, he originally arrived in 1956, but went back to korea for a year and then came back. Master Henry Cho first taught at a boxing gym which he joined to stay in shape, circa 1958 and then in 1961 opened America's first commercial Korean Karate school. I believe both men saw an opportunity to make money teaching KARATE in order to pay for their own college education. Both men used the term KOREAN KARATE publicly, although personally Master Rhee called his art TANG SOO DO and Master Cho called it KONG SOO DO. Master Rhee was from the CHUNG DO KWAN and Master Cho was from the CHI DO KWAN (JI DO KWAN). Both men back then taught common forms like, Pyong Ahn 1-5, Chul Gi 1-3, Bal sek, Kwan Kohng etc. Master Rhee's own Kwan Jang Nim was Master Son Duk Son, who recently passed away in Rhode Island. Master Cho's Kwan Jang Nim was Yun Gwae Byung also deceased. Both these deceased leaders were unfortunately pushed out of leadership by individuals within their own Kwans who embraced the Kwan unification movement that would lead to the KTA, ITF and WTF entities.