The Anti-Smoking Nazis have gone too far...

**Webmaster** · 11-16-2006, 09:50

I am not a smoker, but when a person cannot smoke even in their own home, that goes way too far.

http://www.smdailyjournal.com/articl...w.php?id=66988

**Ramirez** · 11-16-2006, 09:53

That is ridiculous, you are better off educating on smoking and promoting a healthy lifestyle anyway, I believe the latest projection is that Australia might be smoke free by 2020 because so few people there take up the habit.

**Jay Bell** · 11-16-2006, 10:02

As sick as this is, it isn't anything new. Not long after I moved to Phoenix, Mesa, AZ did very much the same thing. Mesa is politically controlled by...er...a perticular "fundamental" religious group...one that doesn't allow smoking, caffeine, etc..

Baseline Rd seperates Mesa from the next Northern town. If you were driving East on Baseline and smoking in your car, you could be ticketed. West, you were fine. It was beyond rediculous.

Finally the state stepped in and dropped the hammer, yet Mesa just modified the no smoking ban, making it illegal to smoke in public places unless they had a specific alcohol license (which was of course, was astronomical). Countless bars and restaraunts closed down...some that had been in the same location for decades.

Tempe followed...doing pretty much the same type of thing. No smoking unless the liquor license was up to par, or they had a patio.

With this past election, now it's the entire state. Businesses are going to be crushed. Bars/clubs/restaraunts with patios are going to explode financially. I remember when Mesa first put theirs into effect...friends and I would go out as a group and they'd rather drive 10 more miles to go eat than eat and not smoke in Mesa.

While smoking is an annoyance to me...this is just wrong. No one stopped to think of the impact that this would have on bars and such.

**David Craik** · 11-16-2006, 11:13

Guess I'd have one hell of a collection of tickets.

**WhiteBeltJones** · 11-16-2006, 11:31

Originally Posted by Webmaster

I am not a smoker, but when a person cannot smoke even in their own home, that goes way too far.

http://www.smdailyjournal.com/articl...w.php?id=66988

According to the ordinance, you can smoke in your home if it is a detached single-family dwelling. I have sympathy for people who live in apartments with smoking neighbors. It comes right through the ventilation, and folks are seldom willing to stop smoking to accomodate neighboring apartments. (I speak from experience, having lived in an apartment with my then-pregnant wife and neighbors who smoked.)

Am I saying that the ordinance is completely reasonable? No, I think it might go a little far. But the truth is that cigarette smoke is a very pervasive substance, and it is hard to smoke without sharing that smoke with somebody else who doesn't care to inhale it.

**Patrick Hayes** · 11-16-2006, 11:45

California passed a ban on smoking in public places several years ago, and a similar ban passed in Washington earlier this year. Many people were convinced that restaurants and bars would go out of business because no one would continue going there if they had to go outside to smoke. I don't have any figures to back up this statement, but it actually seemed that business has picked up in both states because non-smokers can now visit those places freely. Smokers still go out to restuarants for food and to bars for alcohol and people like my wife, who has respiratory problems, can now go out drinking, bowling, and to live music concerts without choking. Having been a waiter and bartender, I was glad to see the ban pass because I don't smoke and would prefer not to breathe in second-hand smoke all day.

However, not being allowed to smoke in your car or even in your own home is absolutely ridiculous. I guess they're just trying to strictly enforce the "no smoking within 25 feet of public places" rule, but going a little overboard. I supposed it could be argued that people aren't allowed to drink in public either, but come on, it's really not the same thing. Oh well, Belmont's kind of a strange place anyway.

**jwinch2** · 11-16-2006, 11:47

California has had a ban on smoking in public places for several years. Everytime i have been out there and gone into a bar it has been packed. When I try to get a reservation at a resturaunt it takes forever. They have a no smoking indoors policy in Oregon, yet when I go to the Eugene campus I still see the bars and resturaunts filled to capacity. They simply have an outdoor designated place for people who want to smoke or who do nor care if they are around it.

As far as what people do in their own homes, as far as I am concerned that is their own business. However, I am certainly for a ban in public places. I know I am sick of coming home smelling like smoke just because I want to go out and watch a game at a sports bar, I am sick of having to walk through a cloud of smoke to go into the library on campus, and i am sick of seeing cigarette butts all over the ground from people who are too lazy to pick them up.

Good to go as far as I am concerned.

EDIT: oops double post with Patrick...

**Erik** · 11-16-2006, 11:59

I'm with Kurt on this one. I live in an indoor apartment building and there are some neighbors who smoke enough that the whole building stinks of it.

Interestingly, there have been a few tenants (who find themselves thrown out after a little while) who smoke so much pot that I'm worried I may not pass a drug test if ever asked to take one. They smoke so much that the hallways on both floors are literally cloudy and you cannot see the other end of the hallway clearly.

I've been very tempted to call the police but the building super does a good job of handling this.

All that being said, if a smoker's smoke affects other people, then they are in the wrong and should not be allowed to smoke. If it does not affect other people (own car, single-family detatched building, etc.) then it's their right.

In general, I have very little sympathy for smokers.

Hey Patrick - know the first town to ban smoking in public places? Hint: we used to live there....

**Patrick Hayes** · 11-16-2006, 12:27

Originally Posted by Erik

Hey Patrick - know the first town to ban smoking in public places? Hint: we used to live there....

Yep, good ol' SLO-town, also home of the drive-thru window ban. Since moving to Washington, I make it a point to always use the drive-thru window, just because I can

. Now I don't even get the slight exercise from getting out of the car and walking inside to get my greasy burgers and tacos. And I wonder why I'm getting fat. . .

Actually, almost everyone I knew in San Luis Obispo was an ex-smoker. I wonder how strong the correlation is between a ban on smoking in public places and the number of people who give up smoking altogether? I figure there has to be some correlation, but is it strong enough to be statistically significant?

**Jeff C.** · 11-16-2006, 12:53

Actually, I think it is a grand idea. Nicotine should be illegal. I wonder how many dollars we spend in this country on outrageously expensive insurance because of smokers and their nicotine/smoking-related illnesses? Better yet, tax the crap out of it and put the extra income towards taking care of these poor folks when they catch one of any number of maladies due to their bad habit.

I know what the follow-up argument will probably be: where do we draw the line on what substances to make illegal?

Jeff Cook

**Ramirez** · 11-16-2006, 12:55

Originally Posted by Jeff C.

Better yet, tax the crap out of it.

Jeff Cook

That is a good idea, we tried that in Canada but had to lower the taxes because contraband cigarettes started becoming a problem. Yep, the government was in competition with the black market.

**elder999** · 11-16-2006, 13:19

Originally Posted by Jeff C.

Actually, I think it is a grand idea. Nicotine should be illegal.
Jeff Cook

Don't know if it's a "grand idea," though something should be done about habitual tobacco/nicotine use. A total ban, however, would restrict the religious freedom of a great number of people.....

**Erik** · 11-16-2006, 13:53

Who smokes tobacco religiously?

I'm with Jeff on this. Tax the heck out of (or make illegal) cigarettes because 1) their harm cannot be contained (second hand smoke flows where it wants to) and 2) it costs ALL of us a fortune to pay for the harm it does and 3) it is a luxury good, not a necessity (like, say, driving is, for the present).

(My dad is an oncologist - I have strong opinions on this having grown up with dying patients and big jars filled with lung tumors - friggin' disgusting!)

**elder999** · 11-16-2006, 14:05

Originally Posted by Erik

Who smokes tobacco religiously?

Indians.

It was never meant to be carried around in your pocket 20 smokes at a time....

**Erik** · 11-16-2006, 14:13

Indians.

Oh, that's a whole other ball of yarn....

**s.henson** · 11-16-2006, 15:11

Smokers are the most inconsiderate group of people on the planet. I have no sympathy for them. The law will probably have to be amended, but I'm all for it.

**Dennis Monk** · 11-16-2006, 15:26

Originally Posted by s.henson

Smokers are the most inconsiderate group of people on the planet. I have no sympathy for them. The law will probably have to be amended, but I'm all for it.

My isn't that quite the blanket statement. As a smoker myself, (been trying to quit for years) I can see SOME of them being that way but not all. Covering all smokers with a statement like that is BS. I for one, and am not alone, will not smoke around young children, old people or my parents. I choose not to as a courtesy and consideration for them. I won't smoke in my own vehicle with people that have a major problem with it, even though it is MY vehicle. I don't even like to smoke inside the home of another smoker, knowing a child lives there. Inconsiderate? All?
Yes, there are those that would and will do these things, and even more. They are also the same people that cut in line, don't hold a door open for old ladies and fart in elevators too.
Just because I have a legal but bad habit, does not make me inconsiderate. Furthermore, I don't need your sympathy. I would love to travel back in time to the "cool guy" that offered me my first smoke, just so I could kick the living mess out of him. I can't very well do that.
This isn't a thread about willpower and being able to quit so I am not even going there. I will say that I think scientists are dead on when they say that nicotine is almost as addictive as heroin.
Smoking stinks, smokers stink, Yep, we know.
Tell me that I can't smoke in my own home or vehicle, and I will probably start violating more laws than just those.

**ezzthetic** · 11-16-2006, 15:28

Smokers get no sympathy from me. Why should we care?

**Jay Bell** · 11-16-2006, 15:39

What smoker is asking for anyone's sympathy? I can't recall hearing that...

As a chewer (and former smoker) for more than half of my life, I can say that this is a tough thing. If chewing was given the same shot as smoking (which has happened with no-tobacco laws in some cities in the US), I'd stay home a hell of a lot more than I do now...just as I'm sure smokers will now.

My non-smoking friends that have a problem with smokey bars...they don't go to them. Pretty simple. So now the shift has changed for smokers to find other places to go. All in all, either way, people's comfort is being cast out. Non-smokers have to put up with hacking coughs the next morning and smelling like hell, smokers no longer can be there without walking outside every 15 minutes.

I really don't see much of a solution, but punishing tobacco addicts does nothing. It hurts people far beyond them. If more resources were put into gear for effective tobacco treatments, it might make some more sense (where exactly do these spiked taxes go?).

**TonyU** · 11-16-2006, 15:40

I don't know where I stand on this, expcet when I did smoke (more than 20 years ago) I was considerate. I never smoked in a restaurant or around non-smokers. While it limited when I could, I knew and respected those that did not.
Now I do the same with the occasional cigar and when I dip. I know that the spitting may disgust some. So I keep it to myself.