Designing your own combatives system.

**nismophreek** · 01-18-2007, 18:18

Have you all ever considered coming up with your own "system"? I am a martial arts addict and have been studying and researching martial arts of all types for many years. I have been thinking a lot lately about setting up my own combatives system. I want to take aspects from all of my previous training and combine them into a "new system". I'm not trying to be cookie cutter or anything and "IF" I decided to teach it, I will not be looking to profit financially from it. Do you guys think this is something that I should pursue or should I just leave it alone?
.....Please don't be too hard on me everyone.

**Dale Lackey** · 01-18-2007, 21:14

I wouldn't if I was you. What would be the point of it? Besides, you're 24 if your profile is correct. Think of something like that in 20 more years.

**Musubi Dojo** · 01-18-2007, 21:19

I don't think you're going to get the answer you want here....

**nismophreek** · 01-18-2007, 21:29

I'm not looking for a "yeah sure, you'd be great at it" I just want opinions before I let my dreams take control and jump head first into this. Judging by your answer, No, I should not do it. Correct?

**Haze** · 01-19-2007, 06:35

Originally Posted by Dale Lackey

I wouldn't if I was you. What would be the point of it? Besides, you're 24 if your profile is correct. Think of something like that in 20 more years.

I don't feel age has anything to do with it, founder of judo was in his early 20's.

BUT,, all you would have was a mix of various martial arts. I quess that is ok because most systems out their started that way.

I train in goju. Came from White Crane style as far as I can tell. Was changed to incorporate some of Okinawan fighting style (te) by Higashiona (naha te) and was further changed or refined by Miyagi to be called goju ryu.

**wab25** · 01-19-2007, 15:13

First question to ask yourself: What martial art experience do you have? You have been training in many martial arts for many years. Does that mean you are a white belt in six different arts? Have you attained black belt in any of these arts? Have you used your martial art outside of your 2-3 nights a week at the dojo? Have you had your butt on the line, literally? (as in, might not be going home tonight, if this doesn't go right?)

To be honest, I think that people who make up their own art, without ever having an experience outside of friendly point sparring, don't have the experience necessary to create a martial art.

I get to make all the call backs for our dojo. Just recently, a lady called asking about classes. In talking with her, she just got a divorce, from a physically abusing husband. She has a restraining order against him, which he chooses to ignore. The cops won't come, until she gets hurt. While they were married, he put her in the hospital a few times. She wants to know if our class will help her protect herself from her ex. What if she calls you and asks about how your made up system will help her? What experience can you draw on to know that you are not teaching her exactly the wrong thing to do, putting her in the hospital again, or worse? Realize, that many who teach martial arts also have a hard time answering these questions, even with many years of history filled with many successful examples.

You must consider that your students may have to one day rely on your training, for their lives. Are you qualified to create your own system, for people to bet their lives on?

**Koshu** · 01-19-2007, 16:48

Originally Posted by nismophreek

Have you all ever considered coming up with your own "system"? I am a martial arts addict and have been studying and researching martial arts of all types for many years. I have been thinking a lot lately about setting up my own combatives system. I want to take aspects from all of my previous training and combine them into a "new system". I'm not trying to be cookie cutter or anything and "IF" I decided to teach it, I will not be looking to profit financially from it. Do you guys think this is something that I should pursue or should I just leave it alone?
.....Please don't be too hard on me everyone.

I've been looking for a past relatively recent thread started by a young man from the Philippines that was interested in doing something similar, but didn't have the cautious sense to emphasize the "IF" in his opening post. Maybe one of the moderators can post the link.

To help the rest of us better understand your intentions, but at the risk of you getting lambasted, I'm willing to open the can of worms and ask:

How long have you been training in your respective arts, and what ranks have you attained?
Do you have law-enforcement, military and/or other close-quarters-combat training, teaching, and real-life appllication experience conducive to developing a "combatives" system?
Have you competed in MMA, and do you consider yourself an MMA fighter? Even though the specific foundation arts used by MMA'ers may differ from one another, I don't see most of the current crop (unlike Joe Son, for example in the past), putting a name to their mix of skills just for the sake of being different.
What would you bring to the table that something like say, Krav Maga, doesn't already provide?
Are we blowing all of this out of proportion, and you're really just trying to put a label on your personal cadre of martial skills just so that you don't have to say I'm a "TKD-JKD-BJJ-etc." guy?

**nismophreek** · 01-19-2007, 19:13

I've been doing a lot of thinking about my motives for this since reading a lot of the responses. I would say my biggest motive is giving the area I live in more choice in the martial art that they take. We do not have a martial art in this area that is strictly geared towards no holds barred self preservation. Here is a list of the schools in the area: Cha San Ryu Karate (from all the research I have done, it is a modern form of karate), Shotokan (really traditional...nothing wrong with that though), American Freestyle (I won't even begin on that), Combat Hapkido and Tae Kwon Do. Then there is the school I am attending. We train in Muay Thai, JKD concepts, and BJJ. However, the training is more sport fighting oriented then it is reality based. I really like my training but I just feel that it is lacking some things.
I am not trying to do this tomorrow. There is lots more that I want to learn before I devise this system. I am asking whether or not, given the circumstances and reasoning, I should work on developing it or if it is a bad idea.
Yes, I have had to prove my martial arts ability in real life situations, and, yes, I have reached dan level in my studies. I am not a "free week intro" martial artist. My heart is in the right place, I just need to see if my mind is. Thank you guys for all of your responses thus far.

**Dale Lackey** · 01-19-2007, 20:55

Might be a good idea to get like minded individuals in your area, and start a club of sorts. That way you see what kind of response you may or may not have and also work on your ideas.

**Aaron T Fields** · 01-19-2007, 21:21

This kind of statement is why history is an important subject. History, if studied, teaches humility. Your realize that in some form everything has been already done or thought. You quit trying to be original and just focus on being good.

Just in case the lines are smallish and can't be read between. No I think it is an awful idea. Instead practice what you enjoy and customize it to your own person, in time.

Sweat more talk less,

Aaron Fields

**Gordon Nore** · 01-19-2007, 22:13

Originally Posted by nismophreek

...I would say my biggest motive is giving the area I live in more choice in the martial art that they take. We do not have a martial art in this area that is strictly geared towards no holds barred self preservation. Here is a list of the schools in the area: Cha San Ryu Karate (from all the research I have done, it is a modern form of karate), Shotokan (really traditional...nothing wrong with that though), American Freestyle (I won't even begin on that), Combat Hapkido and Tae Kwon Do...

Chris,
I was going to post a simple question, "Why would you want to bother developing a style?" in response to your initial query, but you answered that above. I still don't completely get the need to create a new system. If NHB fighting is your interest, why not commit to a core art and adapt your practice and instruction to that interest. It goes on all the time... Look around and you'll see different teachers in the same art teaching with a different focus: one teacher trains people to score points at tournaments; another trains for self-defense; still another trains his/her students for aesthetics.

I may be oversimplifying, but there I think there are sufficient styles/systems already out there to teach people to block, strike, kick, disarm, grapple, etc.

**Koshu** · 01-21-2007, 18:28

Chris --- Does Krav Maga appeal to you? Do you feel it fills the gaps in the availability of self-defense training you've observed in your neck of the woods? If so, are any of these locations near you? If nothing else, the Krav Maga stuff could provide a benchmark against which you could measure your personal skills from a self-defense perspective, whether or not you end up codifying your stuff into a style or system to impart to others down the road.

Also, do you see possibilities of shifting the emphasis at your current school more toward a balance of sport fighting and self defense? If the proprietors are open to that, that may be the best way to go.

**Cliff Hargrave** · 01-21-2007, 19:24

You don't have to create your own style to do your own thing. Just teach whatever you want to teach and it will or will not stand the test of time. You don't have to put a name on it to do that. You can start your own club and call it Chris Moore Martial Arts. Creating your own "style" will not give it any more credibility. Probably less credibility actually. That is the problem with martial artists now, starting their own styles, getting together and trading rank and recognition, it's gotten silly.

I am teaching BJJ right now but I plan on also teaching Karate again one day. It will be my version of Karate and taught the way I want it to be taught. I might have my own Kai or Kan but I am not going to have my own Ryu. I didn't invent anything new, just picked up different stuff over the year to add to the Shorin Ryu base I have. After I am dead if my students still are carrying on my version they can call it Cliff-Ryu or whatever.

**Koshu** · 01-22-2007, 03:14

Originally Posted by Cliff Hargrave

You don't have to create your own style to do your own thing. Just teach whatever you want to teach and it will or will not stand the test of time. You don't have to put a name on it to do that. You can start your own club and call it Chris Moore Martial Arts. Creating your own "style" will not give it any more credibility. Probably less credibility actually. That is the problem with martial artists now, starting their own styles, getting together and trading rank and recognition, it's gotten silly.

I am teaching BJJ right now but I plan on also teaching Karate again one day. It will be my version of Karate and taught the way I want it to be taught. I might have my own Kai or Kan but I am not going to have my own Ryu. I didn't invent anything new, just picked up different stuff over the year to add to the Shorin Ryu base I have. After I am dead if my students still are carrying on my version they can call it Cliff-Ryu or whatever.

Well said. If my teacher were to read this Cliff, he would also wholeheartedly agree as that was his approach.

**TylerD23** · 01-22-2007, 04:23

Mate,

I think there are some good cautionary pointers here.

But I say consider this:
What will you lose from trying?
What regrets will you have if you don't?
Will the nay sayers be there when you succed or fail?
All great martial artists have stepped out from behind the shadows of great men, will you?

No critiscism to those who advise against it.I can see their extremely valid points. But I don't see enough to dissuade you.If you fail then you start again in ten years from what you have learnt.

Risk nothing, learn nothing.

Cheers,

Tyler

**nismophreek** · 01-22-2007, 06:09

Thank you everyone for all of your help. I have sort of decided that if I do decide to teach then I will more than likely take the road that cliff has described. I will probably teach NHB in more of a reality based way as opposed to sport fighting. I have mostly decided not to try and put a name on it, mostly out of respect for the arts themselves. You are correct, I would not be inventing anything, more so just picking and choosing what I like and think would be valuable to "the system". I don't know guys, the ideas are just always swirling in my head and I get caught up in them because martial arts is my drug. If I want to teach martial arts and I got paid, and if martial arts is my drug, would that make me a drug dealer? lol

**RickMatz** · 01-22-2007, 06:50

Listen for the color of the sky. Look for the sound of the hummingbirds wings. Search the air for the perfume of ice, on a hot summer’s day. If you have found these things, you will know.–

**David Craik** · 01-22-2007, 10:20

Good ol' Master Po.

**rubberband** · 01-26-2007, 22:42

Don't think of it in terms of creating an art. Think in terms of developing a curriculum for your own school. Modern martial arts culture has several catagories for new schools and their techniques. Integrated martial arts, Self defense combatives, Mixed martial arts, etc... are all terms that describe modern systems and describe the techniques, strategies, purpose, and applications of the techniques as well as the inclusion or lack of weapons training.

When I started developing my system I took a hard look at the ways I had been trained and what I saw when I had actually faught. I thought about what aspects of training enforced what I experienced in fights and what was useless. in the begining I tended ot hold on to too many weak techniques for traditional reasons... because they were part of the arts I studied in the past etc... once I had a preliminary grouping of techniques I got together with anyone who would train with me... trained or untrained and tested them... over time I joined a mixed martial arts group who liked to spar and worked out with full contact karate fighters and jiu jitsuka... I competed in grappling tournaments and did loss prevention work... I learned from my mistakes and trimmed the fat from my art... I then took on apprentice students who would allow me to experiment... one of whom had a black belt in karate and a brown belt in judo and out weighed me by 30 lbs... it is important to test your art and it is important to get a trusted apprentice who will allow you to fully test your origional ideas under controlled yet fully resistant conditions... this way you can trim more fat... just be careful not to fall in love with your own ideas... sometimes this will lead you to failure... what works on your traiing partner does not always work on anyone else... thats right ANYONE else... so real testing is very important... test every part of your art... then develop training drills that reinforce your concepts... also consider that we live in an information age... I looked at what others were doing and did a cross cultural comparison of techniques that are common to most martial arts through time and worked with these to discover the most efficient variation... I also considered the context of applications when I decided what techinques should stay and what should go... basically creating a system takes a long time and you must also realize that you and your apprentice will be the first students of the art so you must also develop the skills once you have a curriculum...

another lesson you can take from my experience is that you must decide who you are creating the art for... two years ago I taught part of my art to a woman who needed self defence skills and discovered that many of the techniques that worked for me and my male students didn't work for her because she was very slight in stature and had small hands... so your student type is another consideration...

the main thing is to not think you need to write it all out and then start training in it... I tried that approach and failed... the thing to do is to start training and be willing to admit mistakes and move forward... test, test, test... and have fun... let your system find you... don't go looking for it...

take care and good luck, steve

p.s. if you have any questions of want more advice then feel free to P.M. me

**basher** · 01-27-2007, 02:31

Most of the people trying to discourage you are just too afraid to think for themselves. The others are maybe just too cynical. It's martial ART lest we forget. Take something, give it your own spin, test it.

The "styles" people practice now didn't just pop out of a monk's butt. You create something by combining different things, or simplifying the overly-complicated. If you trace any martial art backward, you'll see influences from all different arts and styles, etc.

That's what makes it alive.

Can you contribute something completely unique? No, mainly because our bodies only move in certain ways. But you can take one neglected aspect of an art you know well, and try to make it your own. Maybe it will open new doors.

My only suggestion is that if someone tries what you're developing, it has a good chance of actually working in a real fight. You'll have to test it. You'll have to get some broken ribs, maybe, go back to the drawing board and learn from your experiences (not go out looking for a fight, but maybe some hardcore bare-knuckle stuff.)

Go for it! Don't be limited by what has come before you--just respect it a little.

People come up with combat systems all the time (do a quick search on the internet). Study WWII combatives, mix it with monkey kung-fu and see what happens, I don't know. Experiment, enjoy yourself, and be honest with your results.

Don't and Can't were never words in my vocabular, espcially in the dojo. Why get trapped in rigid thinking?