Designing your own combatives system.

[Cliff Hargrave]

Most of the people trying to discourage you are just too afraid to think for themselves.

That is a very insulting statement. He asked for opinions and got them from people that based them on their own experiences. Just because you don't agree does not mean they are not thinking for themselves.

[nismophreek]

That is a very insulting statement. He asked for opinions and got them from people that based them on their own experiences. Just because you don't agree does not mean they are not thinking for themselves.

Agreed. The advice was solid but we could've done without the insult. I guess the name BASHER is more than a reflection of his fighting style.

[basher]

That is a very insulting statement. He asked for opinions and got them from people that based them on their own experiences. Just because you don't agree does not mean they are not thinking for themselves.

What on earth is "very insulting" about what I said? By the way, I think you had great practical advice in this post (funny you took what I wrote personally against you). Some of the other posts about creating your own system were way too dismissive in my opinion, and were said out of a lack of creativiey, fear, and/ or cynacism. That's not an insult, it's an opinion, and one I stand by. The guy asked constructive opinions, not just negativity toward his ideas.

[basher]

[QUOTE=nismophreek]Agreed. The advice was solid but we could've done without the insult. I guess the name BASHER is more than a reflection of his fighting style.[

What insult?

Look, a lot of these people were too negative in my opinion. Why was I interested in your post? I'm an artist with a master's degree from an Ivy League university. All I do is give criticism and take it. One thing I HATE is when someone is trying to find their way, and someone right at the start gives them all these reasons not to try.

You have to fail. You have to make mistakes. When I paint, I know that I am going to make absolute crap. But you have to keep going, you have to keep following your own idea, and eventually, through the process, you'll find something fresh. You won't, though, if you don't try.

You cannot take criticism against people's ideas as insults against individuals. I did not insult anyone. I didn't even name anyone. SOME of the posts were way too negative, and I do think it's because of a fear to do soemthing new, or cynacism. It's a form of conservatism that doesn't allow art to grow.

So, don't be so eager to jump on the bandwagon and say I was insulting someone, please. I was actually trying to help you, and I was being sincere.

Good luck, anyway, I'll stay out of it...

[Musubi Dojo]

Some of the other posts about creating your own system were way too dismissive in my opinion, and were said out of a lack of creativiey, fear, and/ or cynacism.

Your opinion sounds like mind reading to me. The problem being that you are attacking people instead of ideas. "I don't see a need for all the negativity" is fine. Once you start telling people that they lack creativity, are afraid and cynics you've launched personal attacks. I think the difference is pretty clear.

You have to fail. You have to make mistakes. When I paint, I know that I am going to make absolute crap. But you have to keep going, you have to keep following your own idea, and eventually, through the process, you'll find something fresh. You won't, though, if you don't try.

This great for painting, sculpture etc. Not so great for teaching people self defense. When you make absolute crap people can get hurt.

Opinions are always welcome here, slamming the other contributors not so much.

Cheers
c

[basher]

Your opinion sounds like mind reading to me. The problem being that you are attacking people instead of ideas. "I don't see a need for all the negativity" is fine. Once you start telling people that they lack creativity, are afraid and cynics you've launched personal attacks. I think the difference is pretty clear.



This great for painting, sculpture etc. Not so great for teaching people self defense. When you make absolute crap people can get hurt.

Opinions are always welcome here, slamming the other contributors not so much.

Cheers
c

Well, I'm surprised at how sensative some of you guys are. Anyway, I did not single out any individual--I believe some of the posts showed a lack of creative thinking, or cynacism. It's not mind reading, it's interpreting what they posted. Maybe I'm wrong--let them explain where they are coming from, that's not my job.

If you read my post, please see that I said you have to test things out and make sure they have a good chance of working in the street. When I said you have to make crap, I mean you have to try crazy things and test them. Painting, sculpture, and fighting--it's all the same.

[Cliff Hargrave]

What on earth is "very insulting" about what I said? By the way, I think you had great practical advice in this post (funny you took what I wrote personally against you).

You sure do assume a lot. I was speaking in general terms about everyone one that contributed. Believe me, I am not shy about something that I would have taken personally and would have said so. Just read some of my prior posts. There would be no doubt if that were the case.

Some of the other posts about creating your own system were way too dismissive in my opinion, and were said out of a lack of creativiey, fear, and/ or cynacism. That's not an insult, it's an opinion, and one I stand by. The guy asked constructive opinions, not just negativity toward his ideas.

So you could have simply stated your disagreement with the posts, rather than making a blanket statement accusing people of not thinking for themselves.

Well, I'm surprised at how sensative some of you guys are.

You must not have been around martial arts for very long. This is so mild that it barely registers on the sensitive scale. Try some of the other more traditional forums out there if you want to see people get twisted about creating styles.

[Musubi Dojo]

You must not have been around martial arts for very long. This is so mild that it barely registers on the sensitive scale. Try some of the other more traditional forums out there if you want to see people get twisted about creating styles.

Ebudo

Well, I'm surprised at how sensative some of you guys are.

Well I'm a little surprised at how naive you are (see how that's aimed at a
person, not a thought or idea )

Anyway, I did not single out any individual--I believe some of the posts showed a lack of creative thinking, or cynacism.

Yes, you insulted the group as a whole which is much better.

It's not mind reading, it's interpreting what they posted. Maybe I'm wrong--let them explain where they are coming from, that's not my job.

The point is you didn't ask anyone for clarification you made blanket statements about people you really don't know anything about.

Painting, sculpture, and fighting--it's all the same..

NO, it's not. The difference is huge. Not knowing this will get students hurt or killed.

Cheers
c

[devildog_jim]

Basher - Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be under the impression that the martial arts are simply a vehicle for self expression and creativity, as if they are just another form of dance. There may not be very many absolute "right" or "wrong" methods, but there are most definitely "dangerous" and "ineffective" ones that can get people hurt or killed. For example, look what happened to one of the hosts of Human Weapon when he pulled guard against a MCMAP instructor. He got a rubber knife stuck in his ribs about 7 times before he knew the guy was armed.

A martial art, especially a "combatives system," is designed to allow the practitioner to protect himself from harm (and generally, to inflict it as well). If I am a consumer, paying someone to teach me a "combatives system," then I want to know that the self-defense techniques I'm learning are effective in the situations I'm being taught to apply them to. Personally, I would only trust someone with significant military or LE (maybe executive protection, depending on the individual) experience to design such a system, because they are the only ones with a broad enough base of real-life experience to know what works in the real world.

Some historical background: When the USMC wanted a brand-new martial art, designed to cover all ranges of engagement and levels of force, they employed many high-ranking masters of different arts, each with almost as much experience as Chris (no offense intended) has years of life. These techniques were then vetted and modified by hundreds of Marines, each with more time in an overseas portajohn than I had in service. I may be wrong, but I believe that the new Army H2H system was developed in the same fashion. Therefore, this is the standard to which I hold any "combatives system."

For the record Chris, I would have no problem telling you to go for it in designing the "Chris Moore Method" of whichever art you decide is closest to what you want to teach (and I think the folks at JKD Concepts would embrace offshots and maybe even let you use their name in advertising). I just think that calling it a "combatives system" is a little over the top, disingenuous, and a disservice to those who you would be teaching. Of course, I think that about many of the Krav Maga courses being offered right now too.

PS: Chris, were you at one of Jhoon Rhee's schools in about 1996?

[Sorros]

[QUOTE=basher]Well, I'm surprised at how sensative some of you guys are. Anyway, I did not single out any individual--

I love when some one like this comes along. (reminds me of me before I was banned)
Dude count your losses and move on these guys will eat you alive. There like a well trained team. You messed with the wrong ones. You should of picked on a dislexic ex flyboy medic like me.

[nismophreek]

Yeah, I listened to the opinions of most everyone that I deal with on Budoseek and have concluded that I will not try to reinvent the wheel or anything and just worry about my own training. That's why I haven't even posted anything on it since January.

[Musubi Dojo]

Old thread guys.....

[Dennis Monk]

Old thread guys.....

No kidding. I have an idea.

[nirgle]

My heart is in the right place, I just need to see if my mind is.

I think this may be the insight you need in order to answer your own question. Take the winter to seriously reflect on whether you're after this goal for the right reasons. If by spring you still want to do it, we won't be able to dissuade you anyway.

[nirgle]

Oops...
Oops again...

[Jeff Burger]

Don't waste your time, Jeff Jutsu will spread across the land like Starbucks.

[migo]

On designing I would suggest doing some research on training methods that are effective accross the board, as opposed to a collection of techniques. You won't be designing your own system per se, but you will get better at teaching.

Lloyd Irvin and Eddie Bravo are both some good guys to look at for unusual teaching strategies that are quite successful.

[Jeff C.]

Don't waste your time, Jeff Jutsu will spread across the land like Starbucks.

WHICH "Jeff Jutsu," Jeff? I have trademarked the name "Jeff™" - My lawyer will be contacting you.

Jeff Cook

[Koshu]

. . . Lloyd Irvin and Eddie Bravo are both some good guys to look at for unusual teaching strategies that are quite successful.

Robin --- Isn't Jason Chambers of "Human Weapon" fame an Eddie Bravo exponent? If so, then Eddie's clearly not teaching military combatives based on how Jason initially fared in his introductions to the Israeli and U.S. Marines combative systems -- i.e. ventilated by a knife, hidden or in plain sight, without a clue.

[migo]

Robin --- Isn't Jason Chambers of "Human Weapon" fame an Eddie Bravo exponent? If so, then Eddie's clearly not teaching military combatives based on how Jason initially fared in his introductions to the Israeli and U.S. Marines combative systems -- i.e. ventilated by a knife, hidden or in plain sight, without a clue.

You missed the part about teaching methods, not techniques being taught in my post, didn't you?

Eddie has a structure with his classes, several warmups, then some drills that relate to the warmups, then training with 100% resistance. You can do that for grappling, you can do that for striking (of course toning down the force when necesssary). The point is he actually thinks about what he's going to teach, and plans out lessons several weeks in advance so it gets taught well. A lot of instructors don't have a system like that. Also, it's not necessary to follow Eddie's system, but if you're going to teach anything you should look at it and see what he has done.

Also, it should be obvious, but Eddie teaches Jason Jiu-Jitsu, not any of his standup. No idea who does, but that's not something Eddie teaches. Most MMA fighters have more than one coach. Since Jason has some Escrima training (this was before the Escrima episode), it makes more sense to focus on his Escrima teacher than on Eddie in the example of him not handling the knife attacks.