racist japan

[Jeff Burger]

Yes that was my message.
I'm there to train, it cost me alot, it wasn't easy to arrange, it was my first trip (exciting and scary at age 17).
So yes that was my message.
His place was not to go out of his way to continually harrass me. I laughed it off, ignored and it kept coming. I shot back it stopped. Might not have been the right thing to do but it proved good enough.

So if you were trying to make me feel guilty I don't.


As for the rest of that post I'm not very sympathetic to hippy philosophy.

[jutsow]

Its all mathematical....
Racism is inversely proportional to I.Q.

[Kalidor]

I'm certainly not against defending oneself. But a mushroom cloud? It really isn't a symbolic attack you can just localize to just the offender.

Its kinda like if I was a Saudi being harassed by some americans and in retaliation drawing a picture of a plane flying into the twin towers. Something that likely will draw ire from offending and non-offending parties alike.

Also, although you say that

"His place was not to go out of his way to continually harrass me"

It seems clear that your real message was to assert your peoples' superiority. I mean what was the real message here?
"We can nuke you all of you f**kers. We did it once, we don't give a sh** about the thousands lost in collateral damage, hell we can do it again."

or perhaps:

"Remember the A-bomb you lousy japs, you are in no position to be talking about your superiority"

An approach outlined like that by fifthchamber, or at the very least a retaliation less all-encompassing might even help to change some attitudes rather than reinforce them.

Regarding philosophy, nothing i've written is "philosophy". Rather I wish only to illustrate why anti-west ideologies may have arisen. Also to illustrate what many Asians may be reminded of when encountering rude foreigners [i'm not saying your rude].

From my appearance [i'm half Asian-Indian] I am often viewed as a foreigner both when in Eastern Asia and within the US [even though I was born there]. I've faced racism on both sides of the globe. However, in doing so, one thing I definitely wouldn't do is choose a sensitive issue where thousands of people have died and use it as a contention of my superiority, strength, or control.

[unkokusai]

I drew a mushroom cloud on the board and left.

"You obviously evolved from the rat. Thats why your proud to live in filth and why you look like this." (made squinty eyes and buck teeth face).

You sound like a grade-A *******, an immature little fool, a closet bigot, and it's a crying shame you didn't get the beat down you deserved on either of those occasions. That is how you handle difficult situations? There are stupid people in every country, don't feel you have to outdo them all. Stay home, it only embarrasses the whole country when numbskulls like you are let loose.

You're a disgrace...


I suppose I'll be banned now, so let my last comments to you be this: STFU Idiot.

[David Craik]

Yup. Violation of rules 5 and 6.

[Brian R. VanCise]

Unfortunatley there are racist jerks in every country, every city, every town. However there are more good people than there are jerks. I have met racist people everywhere I have been but the good people have always been in the majority. It is hard when someone says something and their is no definative way to deal with any situation. (they are all unique) The last time I came across a racist comment in a foreign country I just decided not to train with that individual again. They were blissfully unaware that I overheard them (as they thought I could not understand) but in the end they will lose out. Nor will I recommend them to others. Really, this goes on everywhere.

[Mekugi]

I find that I am doing a lot of "self-editing" lately when it comes to modern Japanese culture. I dunno what it is, but it seems that when I came here, I was a lot let prejudiced against the people of Japan in general. The longer I live here, the more people I find that are racist (and start to take notice.) Then again, I've found myself saying things about Western culture that I would not have said before living here. For example, I am embarassed by loud, trouble making "Westerner." I know that they don't represent me, but sometimes when folks are drunk things get out of hand...and then all eyes turn to the white guy sitting in the corner trying to eat dinner.

I suppose that is natural...then again it disturbes me.


-Russ

[Kalidor]

For example, I am embarassed by loud, trouble making "Westerner." I know that they don't represent me, but sometimes when folks are drunk things get out of hand...and then all eyes turn to the white guy sitting in the corner trying to eat dinner.

I suppose that is natural...then again it disturbes me.


-Russ

Unfortunately, the actions of single individuals tend to reflect the very ideas the majority accepts regarding their minority group. This is true everywhere.

As far as the evolved from a rat comment, the buck tooth and single eyelid caricature, I think most will agree unequivocally, that they were racist. Additionally, they seem to allude to what you truly believe of those of Asian descent.

For those living overseas, it is sometimes best to just ignore such comments, as allowing others to get a rise out of you often times gives them what they want. However, I suppose it is very difficult when roles are reversed and you are facing racism from a people you regard as inferior. As Mekugi described, there are "loud, troubling making westerners" who believe that, like in the US where Asians are often held is lower regard [in the media for example], they can do whatever they want and say whatever they want with no repercussion.

Reinforcing the idea that westerners are loud, disrespectful, arrogant, however, only makes things harder for us overseas.

[Fist Of The MidEast Star]

Well............ Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh,

Every country has their racists my friend.

[David Craik]

And Japan is loaded with them. In my perception though - and that may be all it is - it often seems a different 'sort' of racism, one propagated by ignorance alone rather than a combination or ignorance and hatred. It just seems a bit different than say, the racism of a "redneck". More passive, I guess; and at times almost comical in a weird way. Nothing beats wandering into a shop in some backwater and watching the proprietor react to your arrival as if he had been physically struck. It's like something you would expect in Fiji or the Amazon Basin in the 1900's, not in one of the most modern countries on earth in 21st century.

Once again must put in a plug for the book 'The Roads to Sata', it is right on the money.

[beungood]

I'm sure I could sit down and write a short book on this very topic, but I'll get this brief. I enjoyed Japan...although there is such an enormous culture difference that I could never feel at home there.

Too many things were...well...extremely foreign to me. Things like common courtesy and manners mean very different things to me than they did there. Just not my cup of tea..

what were the differances and why did they put you off?

[Mekugi]

Okay a semi rant coming on here...not exactly racist...but it has a racist face to it.
This statement:
"You just cannot understand Japanese culture."

This has to be the most contrite load of BS I have ever heard. Most of the time, what people think is "culture" is just a blend of ignorance and stupidity covered up with this statement.

Let me give you an example.
Recently I had a friendly argument about where colds come from with a neighbor, who is in fact a doctor. The whole thing started with "If you go outside without a coat on during the cool days of spring, in the rain, you will catch a cold."

I explained to the good doctor that "being cold" does not in fact have any significant effect on the "catching of a cold." In fact that in was a germ, called a "virus" that invaded the body and began to replicate. The body then defends itself by giving you a cold, more or less. I mean, I haven't been to medical school or anything- but I am educated enough to know that.

The doctor would have nothing to do with it, began to point out what I like to call "quack" medicine as references. I came back the next week with a copy of medical journal I bought online just for him, an extensive section on colds and the viruses that cause them (all in Japanese). His reply was "well, that is not the way it is in Japan. You just cannot understand Japanese culture."

Now, this is really an insult to my intelligence as the subject has nothing to do with culture, but FACT. This is just something that people say because people here have problems with hubris and emotions, and do not know how to deal with it. So, rather than being an adult and standing up to realize that this person is incredibly wrong and should probably go and do some more studying, the easier route was to suspect that I do not fully understand the culture and wash their hands with the situation.

-long pause and sigh-

-Russ

[Abbax8]

People are people. Kind, considerate, patient, ignorant, conceited, jerks. Some feature these traits more often than others. Most display them at one time or another. Culture defines a people, but individuals clash or get along not cultures as a whole.

Racism to the point of hatred is a different animal. To "hate" another person is a learned and chosen way of being.

Example (PURELY HYPOTHETICAL): I am raised as a child to hate blacks. In my neighborhood there are no black families but I learn all the epithets to call them and all the garbage to spew which is praised by my parents. Then I meet my first black person or persons in a setting where I am neither the large majority or minority and such behavior is costly, say at college or work. I am forced to work next to a black person and my senses tell me he is alot like me, he has a wife and kids he loves, he likes sports or music, he goes to church or fishes or Sundays, whatever.... My eyes and ears tell me one thing, my upbringing tells me another. How I choose to view the person is now a matter of choice. I can choose to continue to be racist or change and see the person as another human being.

Peace

Dennis

[P Goldsbury]

Okay a semi rant coming on here...not exactly racist...but it has a racist face to it.
This statement:
"You just cannot understand Japanese culture."

This has to be the most contrite load of BS I have ever heard. Most of the time, what people think is "culture" is just a blend of ignorance and stupidity covered up with this statement.

Let me give you an example.
Recently I had a friendly argument about where colds come from with a neighbor, who is in fact a doctor. The whole thing started with "If you go outside without a coat on during the cool days of spring, in the rain, you will catch a cold."

I explained to the good doctor that "being cold" does not in fact have any significant effect on the "catching of a cold." In fact that in was a germ, called a "virus" that invaded the body and began to replicate. The body then defends itself by giving you a cold, more or less. I mean, I haven't been to medical school or anything- but I am educated enough to know that.

The doctor would have nothing to do with it, began to point out what I like to call "quack" medicine as references. I came back the next week with a copy of medical journal I bought online just for him, an extensive section on colds and the viruses that cause them (all in Japanese). His reply was "well, that is not the way it is in Japan. You just cannot understand Japanese culture."

Now, this is really an insult to my intelligence as the subject has nothing to do with culture, but FACT. This is just something that people say because people here have problems with hubris and emotions, and do not know how to deal with it. So, rather than being an adult and standing up to realize that this person is incredibly wrong and should probably go and do some more studying, the easier route was to suspect that I do not fully understand the culture and wash their hands with the situation.

-long pause and sigh-

-Russ

Yes, this is sometimes why I tease my (Japanese) students, when I have to explain how to read & understand some Japanese characters in the Kojiki, which they have never read in the original Japanese before coming to my class. Sometimes I tell them (in Japanese) that for someone who does not really understand Japanese culture, I seem to 'not understand' their own culture far more than they 'don't', if you see what I mean.

They look at me in shock and wonder if they can really believe what they are hearing. It is in Japanese and it is about the Kojiki, which underpins Japanese culture as they understand it...

Best regards,

[Digi]

That has also happened when it comes to the pyramids in Egypt. For a long time, archaeologists have been trying to understand how the pyramids were built using the tools of that era. Certain groups of archaeologist could not produce an answer, so they made up a theory about aliens building the pyramids.

It's very hard for some people to admit wrong or acknowledge that they don't have the proper knowledge about a certain subject. So it's easier to make up a silly theory. It happens in martial arts as well. I'm hate to put people in the spotlight, but I've been able to capture footage with William Chueng using techniques that would stop an average grappler at all. I feel that it's all pride.

[Insun]

Although this happened almost 56 years ago I still won't speak to Japanese people. My parents moved us to Japan when I was 5 years old to get a job. Three days after arriving in Japan my father was beat to death by his Japanese coworkers for not doing "their" share of the work along with his. My mother told me that the police considered it an accident eventhough she witnessed the entire attack. She carried his body to the local hospital and they refused to treat him and he died while my mother held him. We moved back to Korea the next day. My mother was pregnant with my younger brother at the time. We grew up very poor. Being raised by a single mother in Korea in the 1950s was horrible. It wasn't until I was 11 years old that she could even afford to allow me to attend public school. I was 11 years old and in the first grade. Not a day goes by that I don't think about how much I miss my father and how Japanese people killed him. I always wonder how different my life would have been had I been raised with a father.

[Madmatt]

I had to jump in on this what about Gitmo and water bourding? What low have we the people sunk to?
Madmatt
Okinawa te

[TonyU]

I had to jump in on this what about Gitmo and water bourding? What low have we the people sunk to?
Madmatt
Okinawa te

If you want to discuss torture go to the following thread as this one about racist Japan.

http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/sh...hlight=torture

Other than that, welcome to BudoSeek.

[Webmaster]

I had to jump in on this what about Gitmo and water bourding? What low have we the people sunk to?
Madmatt
Okinawa te

How is this relevant to the discussion about racism in Japan? It really isn't and using the "we're just as bad" argument is juvenile.

People who go to Japan and have negative experiences are there of their own free will and "guests" of that country. Terrorist inmates at Gitmo are hardly "guests", but are enemies of our country. Whether the use of strong interrogation techniques such as water boarding is appropriate in this case is it's own discussion and off topic from the one being discussed.

[Steve1]

Please excuse my ignorance, but what is "gaijin" This is a term that I'm not familiar with