Motivations to become a martial artist

**Koshu** · 03-07-2007, 20:17

As an assistant instructor in martial arts, and a guy, I readily understand and relate to the myriad reasons -- be they related to competition, fitness, self-esteem and/or self-preservation -- why men take up martial arts.

For women, however, I think that there's less dimension in the minds of those in the general public, not to mention in the martial arts (being a male-dominated arena), concerning why women initially choose to train -- even less understanding concerning what drives women to excel long-term in the martial arts. In other words, there's nothing wrong with the popular notion that women primarily take up martial arts out of real or perceived necessity -- i.e. having been or fearing becoming a victim of violent crime -- since that is a major motivator for either gender. It's just kind of simplistic. In public forums such as these, not to mention in martial arts schools themselves, men (who by default are relegated to observing women's experiences vs. understanding them first hand) often act as mouthpieces for women, albeit usually with good intentions. In any case, I realize from speaking with the women with whom I train that there's a lot more debth and breadth to the answers to the following questions than the martial arts community as a whole is aware of:

Why do women initially take up the martial arts?

What motivates women to continue to develop as martial artists -- how do women martial artist's motivations evolve over time and experience?

Look forward to your enlightenments!

**Eliz** · 03-07-2007, 22:26

Originally Posted by Koshu

Why do women initially take up the martial arts?

What motivates women to continue to develop as martial artists -- how do women martial artist's motivations evolve over time and experience?

Look forward to your enlightenments!

Good question. Unfortunately I will have to bore everyone to tears as I really had no motivation.

I was 14 and my HS required participation in a club. I hated all the choices and by default landed in a CMA club.

Loved it from day 1.

As for continuing, I just liked my experiences and continued as I moved from HS to college to adult life. I wasn't style specific - pretty much whatever I could find nearby that was reputable and affordable. Eventually I just settled into TKD and HKD and have been very fortunate to meet some great people.

*yawn*

One of the biggest reasons I hear as to why women won't join is they think it is rough. ..."All that fighting and stuff."

**AndrewSimonsen** · 03-07-2007, 23:05

I've seen you compete, you are rough.

**Koshu** · 03-08-2007, 11:12

Originally Posted by Eliz Seuferling

. . . Loved it from day 1.

As for continuing, I just liked my experiences and continued as I moved from HS to college to adult life. I wasn't style specific - pretty much whatever I could find nearby that was reputable and affordable. Eventually I just settled into TKD and HKD and have been very fortunate to meet some great people. . . .

Ah, this is interesting! So many of us (and I'm guilty as charged) noodle on the differences and perceived efficacy of one style or technique over another, whereas what you wrote above implies that you see common traits of value to you in all martial arts.

Originally Posted by Eliz Seuferling

One of the biggest reasons I hear as to why women won't join is they think it is rough. ..."All that fighting and stuff."

Do you feel there's something inherently different about women martial artists vs. women in general? Are female martial artists typically born (i.e. like you, love it from day one)? Have you seen a fair number of women develop a taste for the martial arts over time? Sadly, I've found that if a woman doesn't seem predisposed to the physicality of the art from the get-go -- no matter how much she may appreciate the art's merits -- she doesn't stick for more than a few classes (whereas I've seen a handful of men with the same initial aversions stick it out for months or even years before quitting).

**Musubi Dojo** · 03-08-2007, 12:44

A theory I've read about....

Women handle stress differently than men. Instead of a "fight or flight" response women more often respond with a "tend and befriend" reaction that makes violence unthinkable. Of course there are exceptions to every rule.

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/ma...ticlekey=79584

Many women shying away from martial arts because of "All that fighting and stuff." would make sense.

**Erik** · 03-08-2007, 14:33

Another theory from that SCA essay Rory suggested stated that for guys, 90% of the hits we take while growing up are in fun whereas for women, 90% of the hits they take are actually meant to hurt and terrorize.

Consequently, it's easier for guys to find it fun to take a beating and to dish it back out on their buddies. We're conditioned to find it fun.

Women, on the other hand, experience the same experience totally differently.

Of course this is based on stereotypes/archtypes, but still, I think it has a lot of merit to it.

I know my youngest sisters won't take *@#$ from anybody, probably because they are twins and had to compete with each other and probably because I would "play" jiu jitsu with them (which usually resulted in me getting dog-piled). My older sister is the opposite but we never played rough when we were little.

I'm curious - Eliz, did you grow up with brothers, male cousins, playing outside, nailing each other with snowballs, etc.?

**Musubi Dojo** · 03-08-2007, 14:55

Are women who participate in MA 'looked down on" by other women?

Is there a peer pressure thing there?

**dao** · 03-08-2007, 20:43

I can't speak for other women so I'm answering the questions from my own perspective. Not sure how enlightening but...

1. Why do women initially take up the martial arts?

In my case, I wanted to get more exercise. I was getting tired of swimming, aerobics classes seemed pointless and I couldn't find a dance class that liked. Then I found a Hapkido class flyer and the rest is history

2. What motivates women to continue to develop as martial artists -- how do women martial artist's motivations evolve over time and experience?

There are probably hundreds of reasons why I continue. But, in the end I think what it boils down to something feels wrong and I miss it when I'm not.

3. Are women who participate in MA 'looked down on" by other women? Is there a peer pressure thing there?

I'm 5 ft. 9 in. so there aren't many women who can look down on me

. Truefully, I don't know and don't really care. To quote Dr. Seuss "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."

**Eliz** · 03-08-2007, 21:19

Originally Posted by Andrew

I've seen you compete, you are rough.

Originally Posted by Koshu

what you wrote above implies that you see common traits of value to you in all martial arts.

I like most styles. What I look for is the quality of the students and the instructor. I just like to be around people who are real people....not people who are caught up on some fancy notion of Ultimate Supreme Power MuHaHa

Originally Posted by Erik

I'm curious - Eliz, did you grow up with brothers, male cousins....

Yea, you could say that!!!

I am the token female.

Originally Posted by Musubi Dojo

Are women who participate in MA 'looked down on" by other women?

I have never felt that, but outside the dojang I am so completely average I am not sure it is even an issue. Someone may ask me how I stay in shape and I would respond MA’s. Mild curiosity is all I have ever been approached with.

**Eliz** · 03-08-2007, 21:30

Originally Posted by Musubi Dojo

A theory I've read about....

Women handle stress differently than men. Instead of a "fight or flight" response women more often respond with a "tend and befriend" reaction that makes violence unthinkable. Of course there are exceptions to every rule.

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/ma...ticlekey=79584

Many women shying away from martial arts because of "All that fighting and stuff." would make sense.

I came back to this post as I have never heard that theory before. I have immediate flashbacks to the foodstore.....the 15 item or less isle......and two blue haired old bitties having it out.

That is a weekly accurance it seems. Never have I seen such violence in women as I do at the food store. Thank God for self check out. Zero on the entertainment scale, but great for the stress free factor.

In all seriousness, I don't know. Seems women can be plenty violent when it suits them, yet they are hesitant to lay into a heavy bag.

Interesting point.

**Koshu** · 03-09-2007, 10:34

From this article titled "Tend and Befriend" (written by a female journalist concerning research by a female psychologist) in PsychologyToday.com:

". . . compared to males, females' physical aggression and fear-related behaviors are less intense and more 'cerebral'--they are displayed in response to specific circumstances and are less tied to physiological arousal. So while both sexes share the capacity for fight or flight, females seem to use it less. . . ."

For example perhaps . . . . . I've never seen a woman without prior background in an art that involves throws and/or groundwork get too animated about the prospect of trying out jujutsu during an initial visit to the dojo, whereas a small number of male newbies have displayed an eager dive-in-and-let's-see-what's-under-the-hood attitude about getting on the mat.

And so maybe this conclusion presented in the article also supports Elizabeth's observation below:

Originally Posted by Eliz Seuferling

. . . Seems women can be plenty violent when it suits them, yet they are hesitant to lay into a heavy bag. . . ."

Now I'm curious about a woman's internal dialogue when approaching training in a martial art for the first time. What does she say to herself as she she stands in front of the heavy bag for the first time, let alone the first time she crosses the threshold into a school (setting aside specific motivations for training for a moment)?

Originally Posted by Erik

. . . I know my youngest sisters won't take *@#$ from anybody, probably because they are twins and had to compete with each other and probably because I would "play" jiu jitsu with them (which usually resulted in me getting dog-piled). My older sister is the opposite but we never played rough when we were little.

I'm curious - Eliz, did you grow up with brothers, male cousins, playing outside, nailing each other with snowballs, etc.?

This is less high-brow, but really makes sense!

**Musubi Dojo** · 03-09-2007, 10:43

Originally Posted by Koshu

However, I think Erik's onto something less high-brow but really sensible (which Elizabeth's upbringing supports). If you're used to trading lumps with male kin your whole life, seems it would lower the mental hurdles as a woman approaches a martial art.

That's the whole "nature vs nurture argumement." (Upon which I'm an avid fence sitter)

My sister was particularly vicious as a child, became introverted and timid as an adolecsent (she got a lot of unwanted attention from men at a young age, looking a lot older than she was) Then I introduced her to jujutsu and then she swung back the other way with a huge confidence boost....nearly breaking my leg and dislocating my elbow during one training session...

**Harlan** · 03-09-2007, 11:09

Depending on any given day/situation it could be:

- This sucks.
- I'm too (*insert choice of: tired, old, fat, out-of-shape, etc.*) for this.
- I can't/don't want to do this.

And usually accompanied with a heavy dose of panic, embarrassment and shaking with fear.

Originally Posted by Koshu

Now I'm curious about a woman's internal dialogue when approaching training in a martial art for the first time. What does she say to herself as she she stands in front of the heavy bag for the first time, let alone the first time she crosses the threshold into a school (setting aside specific motivations for training for a moment)?

Hardest part: first steps across a new hall.

Hate to train...love to have trained.

**Koshu** · 03-09-2007, 11:11

Originally Posted by Harlan

Depending on any given day/situation it could be:

- This sucks.
- I'm too (*insert choice of: tired, old, fat, out-of-shape, etc.*) for this.
- I can't/don't want to do this.

And usually accompanied with a heavy dose of panic, embarrassment and shaking with fear.

So Narda --- What keeps you coming back for more??

**Harlan** · 03-09-2007, 11:15

A good teacher.

**Koshu** · 03-09-2007, 11:18

Originally Posted by dao

. . . 2. What motivates women to continue to develop as martial artists -- how do women martial artist's motivations evolve over time and experience?

There are probably hundreds of reasons why I continue. But, in the end I think what it boils down to something feels wrong and I miss it when I'm not. . . .

Yeah, good point. Perhaps the further one goes in a given art, the less any gender-specific motivators (that may be there when people are new to the art) apply.

**Koshu** · 03-09-2007, 11:22

Originally Posted by Harlan

A good teacher.

What about his/her teaching style appeals to you, motivates you -- especially in light of your candid comments about how you experience training?

**Harlan** · 03-09-2007, 11:28

Without getting too personal, I'd say the situation is 'just right' for my interests and needs. It's a truism...'to the right student, the right teacher.' A mix of research, and good fortune.

**Brian Dugger** · 03-09-2007, 14:30

Originally Posted by Musubi Dojo

That's the whole "nature vs nurture argumement." (Upon which I'm an avid fence sitter)

My sister was particularly vicious as a child, became introverted and timid as an adolecsent (she got a lot of unwanted attention from men at a young age, looking a lot older than she was) Then I introduced her to jujutsu and then she swung back the other way with a huge confidence boost....nearly breaking my leg and dislocating my elbow during one training session...

True to an agree. My younger sib lives in Chicago and works as a fitness instructor. The relatives on the Thai side of the house say she looks like a hockey player, but not as ugly. She is always talkin' up this bokken "fitness" class and how it strengthens and builds a person up. See it's all this "stuff and fluff" external malarky which kinda makes the hair on the back of my neck brizzle up. I told her go see Akira Tohei's group, I think that dojo is on Michigan Ave. They'll show you some bokken work! But alas, she hasn't gone because it is not "in", "fad", "money" , etc . . . And its work, diligence and patience, etc . . . This girl I've shown a number of things and she can learn it rather quickly. "But that hurts, that's painful---wha?! fall down on that foamy thing--why?! Why?! would anybody want to do that?" My response has always been to her, "We're not anybody."

**cnada** · 03-09-2007, 15:29

Originally Posted by Koshu

Why do women initially take up the martial arts?

Well, for me, it was a combination of Power Rangers, Chuck Norris, and WMAC Masters. And, I wanted to lose weight, too.

What motivates women to continue to develop as martial artists -- how do women martial artist's motivations evolve over time and experience?

I'm still doing TKD because I love it! When I miss class, I just feel...wrong. And I want to get to black belt. I've been told that's wear the real fun begins.