MA and self-defence courses

[Erik]

Start in low-risk environments. Bars that are not especially violent, with an experienced partner (kohai/sempai).

Mental patient wards, too, as you MUST learn to read offbeat (to put it mildly) people and react with very, very controlled force.

Otherwise, formal training for a specific job - LEO especially, where people watch a scenario and debrief.

This is hard to do with bouncers as we are frequently egoists with sub-caveman IQs trying to prove how tough we are.

I am strongly for "live" training BUT some guys here are into kata-type training (and have taught me that the word "kata" covers more than I thought it did) and have used it consistently with great success.

What I like about the "live" training is that it helps teach trainees how to react to changing environments. This is important because in real life (at least the limited part of what I've experienced) people often do some very strange stuff and learning to adapt on the fly is important. Don't get stuck between Os and Ds in the OODA loop (aka: analysis paralysis).

[Nina]

So if I understand you right Erik, you would also say that the experience of `real` fights is the gateway to have the confidence and ability to react? I agree, but what about women and self-defence? Normally men test their abilities outside, but I think if womens are attacked it`s something completely different, it has nothing to do with showing up who is the coolest...

[Erik]

Good question, Nina. I'm not sure the answer.

If it's a violent Schlagerei attack then the same as above.

If it's sexually based then some kind of scenario training, I guess. I don't know how to do this - I refuse to even be the attacker-dummy. I can't even imagine what to do to simulate training.

The toughest girls I know are kickboxers, though. They get in the ring and fight. This is also a laboratory, not real-world, training but it sure builds spirit.

[Erik]

Also, you should ask Rory, Cliff and Jeff C. They know much, much more than I do about this kind of thing.

[Nina]

If a woman get`s into such a conflict, she has to be very `cruel`, there is often not something between just beating up or leave...

[Nadine]

Good question, Nina. I'm not sure the answer.

If it's a violent Schlagerei attack then the same as above.

If it's sexually based then some kind of scenario training, I guess. I don't know how to do this - I refuse to even be the attacker-dummy. I can't even imagine what to do to simulate training.

Maybe one should search for places wher these women or better girls gangs hang around, it's an increasing phenomenon here, because they don't have other hobbies, I think. There are these gangs who either wants to provoke you, or these gangs who wants to rob you, in german: "abziehen". But I wouldn't search for them to improve your selfdefence skills, because often they pull their knives very immediately...

[Erik]

If a woman get`s into such a conflict, she has to be very `cruel`, there is often not something between just beating up or leave...

Then stick fingers in eyes (deep), grab something heavy nearby and hit on the head, and bite chunks and pray there are no blood-borne pathogens.

But that's very general. No mention of weapons or terrain.

[Jay Bell]

If a woman get`s into such a conflict, she has to be very `cruel`, there is often not something between just beating up or leave...

I don't agree with this in any regard. I think that's a very over-used type of mentality.

[Musubi Dojo]

So if I understand you right Erik, you would also say that the experience of `real` fights is the gateway to have the confidence and ability to react? I agree, but what about women and self-defence? Normally men test their abilities outside, but I think if womens are attacked it`s something completely different, it has nothing to do with showing up who is the coolest...

My 2 cents

Awareness & Assertiveness are 95% of the equation.

You need to be aware of personal space and drill reactions to people entering your personal space.

You need to drill a situation with an adrenaline dump. You can do this with intense physical exercise before the drill so you are out of breath, off balance and/or dizzy.

You need to get used to having your faced touched. Most people have a weird reaction.

You need to become accustomed, yelling, screaming and foul language. This can stun some people.

You need to practice against attacks from behind especially having your hair used against you.

You need to develop the "I will survive at all costs" mentality when it comes to violence.

That's off the top of my head, there's lots more

Like Erik said Rory, Cliff and Jeff C. are the guys to talk to.

Cheers
c

[Nina]

Probably I am speaking to general, but I guess that most fights between men start with some kind of verbal attacks? In contrast womens probably get bothered on a more subtile form, where it´s hard to know how to handle, at least for me. E.g. a male person starts to look at you in the train and then you can imagine what happens next...Should you just kick in his groin shortly before entering the next station? I think that the time between the `attack`start and the handling must be much shorter to have a realistic chance...

[Musubi Dojo]

Start with this Nina,

http://www.teddytactical.com/Sharpen...0Awareness.htm

There's a book called "The Gift of Fear" that is really good. Gavin DeBecker ids the Author I think.

[Erik]

Even in Germany if you initiate violence against some guy simply because he looks creepy, you go to jail, right?

Your instinct may be 100% correct but initiating violence (using your kempo kicks) is the wrong answer.

Instead, use your spy-movie skills. Go to a crowded area, prefereably where you know someone, see if he's following you, and so on.... These are the skills I meant as being non-dojo skills.

[Jay Bell]

Even in Germany if you initiate violence against some guy simply because he looks creepy, you go to jail, right?

Your instinct may be 100% correct but initiating violence (using your kempo kicks) is the wrong answer.

Instead, use your spy-movie skills. Go to a crowded area, prefereably where you know someone, see if he's following you, and so on.... These are the skills I meant as being non-dojo skills.

Viva la experiance!

[Nina]

Even in Germany if you initiate violence against some guy simply because he looks creepy, you go to jail, right?

Your instinct may be 100% correct but initiating violence (using your kempo kicks) is the wrong answer.

Instead, use your spy-movie skills. Go to a crowded area, prefereably where you know someone, see if he's following you, and so on.... These are the skills I meant as being non-dojo skills.

So waiting until he grasps you? Thanks for the link Chris, I guess I need some time to listen all the stuff and read all the books you recommended , but thanks... I think that I am always observing people and scenario, at least more often then my friends, and I guess that I am most of the time right with my images, don`t want to sound arrogant...Last year there was some kind of WM party here, where a few of our club went after training, Nadine and me observed some strange guys, and talked to the others, but nobody wanted to listen, but enjoy their beer. But we were really starting to get paranoid and thought about the fact, that it won`t last long untill we will feel the knife in our back and so we went in the periphery for further observations. Ok, they didn`t harm us, but they tried to steal...But if they would have done something else, it would have probably been to late for some of us...I don`t know, maybe stupid to discuss about `what happens if-questions`...

[Jay Bell]

So waiting until he grasps you? Thanks for the link Chris, I guess I need some time to listen all the stuff and read all the books you recommended , but thanks... I think that I am always observing people and scenario, at least more often then my friends, and I guess that I am most of the time right with my images, don`t want to sound arrogant...

If someone makes an initiation to harm you, that's your go.

One thing that I always questioned was the idea that a grab is life or health threatening. It's a control movement...and unless you allow that control to take place, there's little to worry or panic about.

[Nina]

If someone makes an initiation to harm you, that's your go.

One thing that I always questioned was the idea that a grab is life or health threatening. It's a control movement...and unless you allow that control to take place, there's little to worry or panic about.

Maybe that is the all-covering question: When does the attack start, where you are not allowed to have any scruples to be as srupleless as possible. Is it better to be wrong with your decision and harm someone `innocent` or to keep on waiting and then it`s maybe too late?

[Nadine]

Maybe that is the all-covering question: When does the attack start, where you are not allowed to have any scruples to be as srupleless as possible. Is it better to be wrong with your decision and harm someone `innocent` or to keep on waiting and then it`s maybe too late?

Reminds me to the "first puncher or not to be" tread...

[Jay Bell]

Maybe that is the all-covering question: When does the attack start, where you are not allowed to have any scruples to be as srupleless as possible. Is it better to be wrong with your decision and harm someone `innocent` or to keep on waiting and then it`s maybe too late?

That's up to the situation. An example of what *not* to do would be to deal with a may-be attacker and attempt to justify it by saying that they looked mean as though they may do something.

It's really not much of a guessing game. If someone comes at you with force and intent, that pretty much spells things out pretty well. A lot of it has to do with awareness...and not overthinking situations. Giving instinct room to move does a lot for you, regardless of situation.

[Erik]

Don't forget, Nina - every fight has four parties - Fighter A & Co., Fighter B & Co., Doctors, and Police/Lawyers.

[DragonMind]

There is a tremendous difference between a bar fight, a mugging, and a violent assault. What they all have in common is your need to be aware, have the right tools deployed, and the mindset to overcome the situation.