Shime Waza (Chokes)

[CEB]

I wanted to start a thread on chokes.

I’ve gotten hooked on this YouTube thing. I am also all fired up about getting back into grappling training.

I always liked choking people. I never was the strongest guy in my weight class. Jime waza was like an equalizer of sorts for me.

I REALLY liked leg assisted chokes. When I learned to use my legs and control them on the ground is when I started to have some success in Judo. My forte was sneakiness. Too bad I never had any talent though. I think one of the sneaky ways to attack is use the legs when someone don’t see it coming.

This is probably the coolest thing I have found on YouTube. I really like Aaron’s stuff. The first time I saw Aaron on film is when I got some recordings of a Jon Bluming seminar that was held in Seattle. Aaron showed some techniques on the tapes. He has good control over his legs. I really like everything I have ever seen him do.

The first choke on the movie is one I really like a lot and would use whenever I could get. Then there is stuff on here I have never seen before. It’s all good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3n4qup9qjE


The neat thing about jime waza including leg assisted techniques was when I learned the basics and were finally able to apply them I could just use the principles to create technique. I didn’t have to be taught technique A is done like this technique B is done like so on and so on….. After a while though I had no names for the techniques I would use. It makes for some communication challenges. I think this happens a lot even in this art that was created by people who seem to be focused on naming and classifying everything. ………. It is hard to name everything.

I may post later on a sutemi variations of okuri eri jime we came up with. I don’t know what to call it. We called it the Masa massacre in honor of the guy from Yokahoma that taught the first one to us.

I just wanted to get the thread started.

Here is the volume 2 clip. At about 1:48 is choke we learned as Jigoku Jime proper. ...Great stuff!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89xG_9F4n90


Have a good day.

[CEB]

Should be Shime waza. I don't know what Jime waza is. Maybe be some sort of sexual technique for all I know.

[starkjudo]

Ed, I changed the name of the thread.

[starkjudo]

Sliding collar choke has always been one of my favorites. I've had my best sucess with it.

One judoka in general don't expect is the guillotine - but I also find it hard to pull off correctly and safely without taking out the windpipe. You also have to be more aware of the potential for it to turn into a neck crank if you're playing with Judo rules, where that's a no-no.

[Abbax8]

I personally like the roll into Jikoku-Jime

Peace

Dennis

[Archimedes]

Here's a simple, wicked one that I learned in a seminar back in April: Say opponent is down on all fours, maybe getting ready to turtle, and you're down on his left facing him. Get your left hand under his chin before he tucks it and grab his right lapel. Raise up, swing your right leg over his back, and plant your right foot back over on his left side. You should now be sitting on his head, neck and shoulders with your left arm between your legs. Now simply fall over on your back...

[kimurawannabe]

Those leg collar chokes are nice.I have Neil adams basic choke video,which shows some pretty basic and nice entries into all sorts of rolling collar chokes.One of the first back chokes that worked for me was kata-ha-jime,no matter what position I ended up in I always wanted to try an apply this choke,regardless of wether it was the apropriate time for it or not.Sometimes we get good at a particular choke or armbar and that's all we see,even when it's not really there"It's like if we had blinders on"atleast I did for some time.

Today I still have that problem(LOL) but I find myself trying to flow into other positions,if I have to struggle to much for anything.Don't know if that's a good thing or bad thing,as I sometimes pass up possible opportunities that could bring positive results all in the name of"keep flowing".

Another good topic would be "when to recognize and move on to another position or submission attempt?or when not to?There lies another facet of this game that takes a while to get good at.Atleast for me,this is something that is just as hard to learn as the actual technique or application itself.Trying not to expend to much energy when something is not really there,or recoginizing when I should go for it,is something I am still working on.

[CEB]

Here's a simple, wicked one that I learned in a seminar back in April: Say opponent is down on all fours, maybe getting ready to turtle, and you're down on his left facing him. Get your left hand under his chin before he tucks it and grab his right lapel. Raise up, swing your right leg over his back, and plant your right foot back over on his left side. You should now be sitting on his head, neck and shoulders with your left arm between your legs. Now simply fall over on your back...

That sound like a variation off the Masa Masacre.

1. Same strting position.

2. With my right hand grab the back of his collar giving some mild downward atemi ( nothing to blatent, I always tried to play nice clean Judo)

3. With the left hand grab his collar on the right side deep behind his right ear.

4. Step up putting your left leg upside his left ear. Then put your right leg upside his right ear.

5. Then frog kick falling over on the right side pulling hard with the left hand.

You will knock people out with the choke. The collar circle closes so hard and fast I think it has the same effect as a brachial stun knock out. Funniest thing I ever saw at a Judo tournament was when of my dojo mates caught someone with the choke and the ref didn't realize at first opponent didn't tap because he was out cold before he hit the ground. My friend Mark eyes got big and he got all terrified and said Ed, I think I killed him! I told him no he is OK. ..... It was great.

[CEB]

Those leg collar chokes are nice.I have Neil adams basic choke video,which shows some pretty basic and nice entries into all sorts of rolling collar chokes.One of the first back chokes that worked for me was kata-ha-jime,no matter what position I ended up in I always wanted to try an apply this choke,regardless of wether it was the apropriate time for it or not.Sometimes we get good at a particular choke or armbar and that's all we see,even when it's not really there"It's like if we had blinders on"atleast I did for some time.

Today I still have that problem(LOL) but I find myself trying to flow into other positions,if I have to struggle to much for anything. Don't know if that's a good thing or bad thing,as I sometimes pass up possible opportunities that could bring positive results all in the name of"keep flowing".

Another good topic would be "when to recognize and move on to another position or submission attempt?or when not to?There lies another facet of this game that takes a while to get good at.Atleast for me,this is something that is just as hard to learn as the actual technique or application itself.Trying not to expend to much energy when something is not really there,or recoginizing when I should go for it,is something I am still working on.

I’m all about not expending energy in Newaza. Sloth style Judo!

I would pretty much pass everything up if I had a good pin.

Submissions when I used them were often done when I was trying to save my butt.

My favorite hold is kami shiho gatame. My opponent might get out but he is going to have to work. While he works I just relax. More the top guy relaxes harder it is to get out. Jon Bluming called it the wet blanket treatment. If I could get Osaekomi I wouldn’t risk giving it up for a shot at an armbar or choke. I’m stingy.

I never could flow on the ground I was always a lot better standing than I was on the ground. These Brazilian guys are going kick my ***. Should be fun.

[CEB]

Tournament clips - Shimewaza

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVqIdt-UZjU

[kimurawannabe]

I would pretty much pass everything up if I had a good pin. If I could get Osaekomi I wouldn’t risk giving it up for a shot at an armbar or choke.[/FONT]

Therein lies one of the basic differences between judo newaza and bjj's philosophy or strategy.The pin is not really given that much significance in bjj,as it is only viewed as a good favorable position that will allow you to get the end result,which is ultimately the tap.

[CEB]

There is no win by pin? Oh boy.

[kimurawannabe]

Those are some nice clips,a lot of good stuff in those highlights.I must admit this about those Judo pins even thou they might not be the ultimate goal in bjj does not convince me whenever a heavier judoka pins you and suffocates you with his gi.

I prefer to get caught in a choke or armbar,instead of having to wiggle out of some of those suffocating gi pins,that are not letting you breath properly,I hate those.I prefer getting caught in the pins that allow me to put one leg up while resting on my other knee,as to prevent mount position.This allows me to rest and act like I am reading a newspaper at brunch(just kidding)while I wait for a little movement from tori.

[kimurawannabe]

There is no win by pin? Oh boy.

No,not really.although you can win by a pin,if your up in a bjj contest.It's really looked down upon as stalling.This is viewed in bjj similar to if a judo player stalls during a 5 min session doing just defensive turtling.Yes you will get good defensively from that position but if that is all you do every time you roll then other parts of your game suffer.I know some judo guys(not all)that are happy and content to either defensively lay inside the guard without any movement or get a pin and hold out the whole session with just that position.

I guess it's good sometimes to work on the details of your pin control but if that's all you do all the time and stay in that comfort zone,then your game could be stagnating.I am not pointing any fingers,as I still do this from time to time,old habbits are hard to break.

[starkjudo]

The best pins are the ones that wind up being submissions by way of near-suffocation or just crushing the breath out of them. I've got a reverese-kesa I love because I can wrap the arm, roll in toward the legs and crush the ribs - it only tends to work on people my size or less due to the way the weight distributes.

[Cliff Hargrave]

There is no win by pin? Oh boy.

Here are the official BJJ rules. Some local tournaments have variations but the scoring system is the same:

http://www.ibjjf.org/rules.htm

Basically you win by tap or an accumulation of points. Points are awards by:

Takedowns 2
Passing guard to a pin 3
Knee on stomach 2
Mount 4
Back Mount 4
Sweep from guard 2

If you are Brazilian all you have to do is throw your leg over someone and you get points for passing and mount at the same time. If you are American you have secure a proper mount, have both knees on the floor, completely control your opponent, and hope the Ref isn't talking to his girl on his cell phone or watching his friend fight on the next mat over

[CEB]

Thanks a lot.

[Jeff C.]

Ed, sorry I am late getting to this thread. Here is a loop-strangle variation using the hands and hips you may like: http://www.wabujitsu.com/videos/strangle.wmv

You may not see it too well, but my right hand goes under the armpit, back of hand to the back of his head. DO NOT figure-four your own arm with your right hand. Instead, as you roll over, extend your arms and hip-switch to belly-down if necessary (not necessary if you get it good and deep, and extend your arms).

Let me know what you think.

Jeff Cook

[CEB]

Thanks. That looked neat.

[kimurawannabe]

So?,Are you Gracie barra 4 life or what?