Kano JuJitsu

[sooner_sadiq]

I was reading a web page about Seki-Ryu jujitsu and it had mentioned that Seki had studied Kano Jujitsu (prior to it becoming judo). I was wondering if anyone knows if Kano jujitsu is still taught anywhere or if it has all just been amalgamated int judo?

[Abbax8]

Kano JJ became Kodokan Judo.

Peace

Dennis

[sooner_sadiq]

Yes I realize that, I guess I was unclear with my question. Was Kano Jujitsu a seperate jujitsu system that was streamlined to become what was known as judo? If so do people still study the jujitsu version or is their an old version of judo that is not sport oriented (closer to jujitsu)?

[Jeff C.]

My understanding is that they are/were one and the same.

Jeff Cook

[Webmaster]

Think of Kano Jujutsu as an older and more combative style of Judo prior to the influence of modern sport related activities. If you are really curious, drop Skip Keopke a PM. Since he was Seki's student, he can fill you in on all the details.

[Erik]

I believe Kano JJ is Judo, just at an earlier name and stage.

Like John Doe used to be Johnny Doe.

(How'd you like that metaphor...? )

[Mekugi]

This thread:

http://judoforum.com/index.php?showtopic=11066

It is hard to discern whether references are used to link the book of the same title and its authors or actually to Kodokan Judo as it existed at that period of time (before the gelling and formulation of the Kodokan kata). More information is needed and details are required.

The book is rather dubious in terms of Judo history and the techniques that existed in 1905, but it has as great deal of historic value in its own right.

[Abbax8]

My understanding from reading various sources over the years is that at first it was called Kano Jujitsu. However, to distinguish what he had formulated from other jujitsu styles he eventually changed the name to Kodokan Judo. At the time jujitsu apparently had a bad name. So the name change was in some ways a marketing ploy. Of course Kano Jujitsu or Kodokan Judo had many of the same techniques as the other styles since it came out of many styles. What distinguished it was its use of randori, which may have come from Kito ryu (memory fails) as a training method. In the beginning it had the full kit of atemi, throws and locks, and some would argue it still does , but over time the syllabus of legal techniques for randori and shiai and the emphasis on sport caused a significant shift in how Judo is normally studied.

Peace

Dennis

[sooner_sadiq]

Dennis,
If I wanted to look at a Judo that more closely resembles its origins with a full array of strikes, throws, and locks what would I look for? It seems everything I seem to encounter is sport Judo. Once I saw combat Judo but that was too long ago to make an informed decision.

[Erik]

What does kodokan actually mean, anyway?

[CEB]

Ko = Old
Do = Ways
Kan = House

Basically a place that teaches the old ways.

[Erik]

Thanks, Ed.

But now I'm even more confused - if the name Judo was a new incarnation of jujitsu, then why "old ways" as a name?

Kinda makes me think "Old Ways House for New Stuff". I don't get it.

[CEB]

What I was taught was Kano did what he did to save Jujutsu because the art was dying out. He didn't want the old ways to disappear so he made the adaptations so the art would live on.

I think a lot of East Asian attitudes comes from the influence of Confucian ideals that promotes the veneration of ideas handed down from the previous generation. Even if you change the beejeebees out of stuff you should still at least pay respectful lip service to your elder's ways.

But that is just me. I don't know anything its just an educated hunch.

[Abbax8]

Dennis,
If I wanted to look at a Judo that more closely resembles its origins with a full array of strikes, throws, and locks what would I look for? It seems everything I seem to encounter is sport Judo. Once I saw combat Judo but that was too long ago to make an informed decision.

Well I am not the old and I started judo in 1967 so my actual experience is limited to that. I had the advantage of training with sensei who trained in the Kodokan in the 1950' and early 1960's as well as sensei who learned from Ishikawa.

In my experience Judo is done first in an upright position. Next judo has kicks, strikes, head butts, etc. often used to initiate kuzushi in a self defense situation. Wrist locks, finger locks, leg locks as well as elbow locks and strangles. These techniques are practiced either in formal kata or just in drills.
Randori is meant to throw the opponent for a full point or immobilize uke or submit uke. Rolling ippons don't count, koka and yuko don't exist, if you get a wazari you are also told to practice harder. Winning is not the point, improvement in skill is. For advanced students expect to do an hour or more of fighting per class, lots of uchikomi and general conditioning.

Shiai is meant to test your skills against persons not in your club not win medals.

Also ukemi is practiced by all during each class and judo's two principles are followed.

Peace

Dennis

[Dale Lackey]

Well I am not the old and I started judo in 1967 so my actual experience is limited to that. I had the advantage of training with sensei who trained in the Kodokan in the 1950' and early 1960's as well as sensei who learned from Ishikawa.

In my experience Judo is done first in an upright position. Next judo has kicks, strikes, head butts, etc. often used to initiate kuzushi in a self defense situation. Wrist locks, finger locks, leg locks as well as elbow locks and strangles. These techniques are practiced either in formal kata or just in drills.
Randori is meant to throw the opponent for a full point or immobilize uke or submit uke. Rolling ippons don't count, koka and yuko don't exist, if you get a wazari you are also told to practice harder. Winning is not the point, improvement in skill is. For advanced students expect to do an hour or more of fighting per class, lots of uchikomi and general conditioning.

Shiai is meant to test your skills against persons not in your club not win medals.

Also ukemi is practiced by all during each class and judo's two principles are followed.

Peace

Dennis

I gotta train with you.

[Erik]

I gotta train with you.

No kidding. Nevermind Rocky, PA has Dennis!

[wab25]

Also ukemi is practiced by all during each class and judo's two principles are followed.

What are judo's two principles?

[starkjudo]

What are judo's two principles?

Mutual Welfare and Benefit.

As opposed to jujitsu's three principles: crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women.

[Cdnronin]

Mutual Welfare and Benefit.

As opposed to jujitsu's three principles: crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women.

Jujitsu's principal look way kewler on a bumpersticker.

[Chokushin]

"As opposed to jujitsu's three principles: crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women."



I knew there was a reason I did Jutsu !!!!!!