Newbies scare me

[Jeff Burger]

Chose your training partner wisely.

When we have injuries in Muay Thai its usually something like a black eye, flat or bloody lip, bloody nose worse a broken toe or broken rib at worst.

In grappling the injuries usually in the joints and take forever to heal if the even heal all the way. So many of these injuries could be avoided if people just let go of wanting to win now and replaced it with wanting to train and learn long term. Thats one of the reasons I avoid newbies in grappling they are often out to win and go way to hard.
Im lucky enough to be able to attend a high level class sure I get my a$$ handed to me every match but my risk of injury is alot less.

I bring this up because Thursday night a newbie (1st day in class) broke a guys leg within the first minute of rolling. Worse I sensed very little remorse from this guy like it something he couldnt wait to go brag to his friends about.
He wont be sparring for a very long time if he comes to Muay Thai.

[a student 1st]

We've had this same problem in our Karate class. A student that is supposed to be working on a technique has to "win". It has led to some injurys of other students. Thank goodness it has not been anything as bad as a broken bone. His problem is that he is not a newbie but a 5th kyu.

We teach some ground work so our students are well rouded. The other instructors and I have told him we refuse to teach him groudwork or joint locks until he gets his "attitude" under controll.

Last week we held a BB meeting and discussed this issue. The head insturctor told the student that if any minor infraction occurs he is banned from any class function for no less than 3 months. If any other control issue comes up his is Out period!!

[Brian R. VanCise]

Unfortunately I have seen this way to often Jeff. Particularly in some BJJ schools that I have attended through the years. New people trying to test themselves to hard and to fast with no care for injuries to their partner's.

I can remember one incredibly strong person coming into one of these BJJ schools and literally going all out and refusing to tap when caught. His first day ended badly as he eventually left with a broken arm. (this happened after being caught three or four times and then picking up the smaller guy and pile driving him down so the person on the bottom was not really trying to break his arm but the big guy just would not stop so it eventually happened) So with new people it sometimes cut's both ways as they sometimes get hurt or hurt their partner's.

I can also remember a former Collegiate Wrestler who I paired up with on his first day and right from the get go the show was on and he would not tap even when caught in an armbar nor would he tap when caught in a Rear Naked Choke. Unfortunately I had to put him to sleep. Any of the seasoned guy's would have tapped and that would have been it. Fortunately for him I did not break his arm but just allowed him a quick snooze.

I remember another time when my neck got really cranked by a new guy and it side lined me for a couple of weeks. So I understand completely Jeff!

More experienced partner's look out and make sure they do not break their partner so that they can work out with them again tomorrow.

[doubleouch]

Been there too. Brand new guys are the ones most likely to hurt you or themselves. At my gym we get everyone sparring even on the first day. I'm careful with new people though. I usually choose their partners carefully. When I have to roll with a new guy I'll work a very conservative game at first to see what they do. If they are a bit wild I'll work mostly on clamping them down and limiting their movement. It usually only takes a few classes for them to get the hang of it though.

I use lots of verbal communication in my classes to let people know what a good training partner looks like. I find that cuts out quite a bit of the bull. Many young strong guys simply don't know. They think they are being hardcore and that's the right way for them to train. They have no idea that they are being bad training partners. Once they understand that most of them will comply. The ones who don't never last long though. Thankfully we have a fairly tough room and anyone who's been around a while and still has a selfish attitude about training will get dutifully smashed. I alway will give the new guy the benefit of the doubt though and try talking with them first. More often than not it's a misunderstanding on their part.

I remember a particular guy who had those problems at my gym. We called him Wild Bill. He knew he had that problem. It took him years to get over it. Now he's a really good purple belt and runs the gym. He's been the best business manager the gym ever had and has nearly doubled our enrollment. He's a terrific coach and good friend. It's hugely rewarding for me to see a guy come in with that type of attitude and a few months later see a huge turnaround. For quite a few of them it's a matter of redirecting that energy in a more positive way.

[DragonMind]

Never rule out Young Punks. At my age, I get a lot of kids who want to "make their bones" by roughing up the old guy. Smacking the crap out of them is the only thing I've found that stops that stupid stuff. As the instructor you really have to watch out for a lawsuit for not providing sufficient safety. Come down on him HARD!

[Musubi Dojo]

I think throwing the little morons out is the best.

"Get dressed and go home sonny, this class is for adults."

[Jeff Burger]

I think throwing the little morons out is the best.

Yeah if I have some idea they are going to a moron they wont get a chance to prove me right.

I have a a couple of guys I dont let spar, it was 5 guys but 3 have come to some sensible training.

In my Muay Thai class Iam always the first person newbies spar with. I want them to feel safe and get a feel for it, what I mean by control....

People who wanted to try to tear your head off used to be few and far between now it seems like 1 in 8. Ill tell them control a couple of times and explain it, but if it remains malicious I like a well sunk liver punch as a attitude adjuster.

[CEB]

That is why beginners should not 'free spar'.

Specificity training is better. An example ...(There are hundreds of setups and criteria for winning). Start in half guard. If the bottom guys gets a sweep or a submission he wins if the top guy passes the half guard he wins. It is sparring but it reduces the amount of injuires and help focus the training to the situations that the beginners have been covering in class.

[JiuJitsuRabbit]

I've had people who should know better get me in an arm lock and apply it hard popping my arm before I even had a chance to tap.

It is definately the difference between catching someone good and someone being overzealous.

[Erik]

What I love most about BJJ is the "checkmate" aspect of it.

With good skills and effort, which is what we should be training for, anyway, one can checkmate the opponent and slowly tighten that choke or hold the armlock in such a way that there is no escape.

I try to move fast but submit slow, if that makes any sense.

[TonyU]

I try to move fast but submit slow, if that makes any sense.

Like moving into position quickly and applying the techniques slowly?

[Erik]

Yes. Was that in the thread already, Tony? Should have read it all....

There are certain moves that I'm not sure would be called "position" such as pressing the arm against the guy's face while setting up a falling armbar (done fast, the falling done slowly), digging in or reaching for the choke fast and hard (risking knocking the guy's chin) but cinching shut slowly, shooting hard for the triangle choke and pulling my foot in for the figure-4 fast and hard (ish) but then pulling his head down very slowly, being mindful of him passing out. Things like that.

[TonyU]

Yes. Was that in the thread already, Tony? Should have read it all....

No. Just making sure I understood you correctly. You computer geek guys are sometimes way above my intellect.

[Erik]

Funny you say that, I keep hoping I can keep up with your good, clear sense.

But yes, you got what I meant. That kind of practice allows me to practice hustling with low risk of injuring my partner.

I do wonder, though, if such a method of practice would train a person to not hit submissions hard or fast in real life? I never had that problem BUT I may have simply been lucky and my number was not up. Can't say for sure.

[Rasputin]

Personally, I like to view jujutsu (in all its forms) as requiring control of the uke when performing the techniques, especially joint locking. If you have control of the person by proper locking of the joint then you can apply your technique at even slow speeds without creating an opening for your opponent to escape. Tyros require speed to lock a joint.

[Avadon]

I'm glad I read this thread because now I know more of what to watch out for within myself and from others too.

Since I'm a newbie, the only thing I've noticed is when I'm with a partner I tend to get a little quick on grabbing them each time after each turn while their own hands relaxingly find their way eventually to position. I was fighting off frustration because I was ready to go staring at their shoulders and they were looking around so after I grabbed them I had to stop myself from grabbing them harder and swaying them a bit to get them to pay attention. I have to remember they're a person too and not just a body that I'm practicing on=P

I think I may need to start focusing more on taking my time, not just with the doing in my own actions but with my partners too. It's like I want to learn too quick and get robotical with the techniques in order to map muscle memory through deliberate repetitive practice rather than flowing with the principles by letting it come naturally on how things feel.

I like getting thrown down on the mat over & over though, haha.