Koryu in the West

**Aaron T Fields** · 06-13-2008, 20:45

Good God man!...

Toby I never knew you were such a sage. I guess I should listen to you more.

Of course when we get together I am usually belly laughing over a beer or I am watching you walk around in that Laura Ashley skirt you call a hakama, wondering to myself if you are wearing that hello kitty thong under it....

So in truth I am only half listening....

Give me a ring when you come this way brother...

Aaron "easy like Sunday morning" Fields

**Toby Threadgill** · 04-03-2009, 16:35

Hi,

I know this is an old thread and this might constitute a little bit of drift, but given the direction this thread went and its discussion about koryu being transmitted outside Japan I thought the following video representing a koryu being poorly taught IN Japan might be of interest.

It's amazing no one was seriously injured or killed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPPZPglKhw0

______________

Now.....Let me be clear about something. I don't care who you are or where you are, there is no excuse for a sword flying out of your hand. So many things are wrong in this demo that it makes me freaking nuts! God, if my teacher Takamura sensei saw this, he would have gone absolutely ballistic.

Remember, this is a demonstration by a Japanese koryu kenjutsu school during a matsuri at the Tagata Shrine, north of Nagoya.

Problems....

First of all there was NO REIGI ! None. I can't believe proper reigi was ignored during a formal matsuri demo at a shrine in Japan. Thats the first tip that would have made me uneasy.....

Secondly, the guy doing the cutting was being instructed just prior to the demo. Watch it. The teacher is telling the student what to do. Look, if you don''t already know what your doing, you sure shouldn't be doing a demo. At this point I might have started putting distance between myself and the swordsman.

Thirdly, nobody is paying any attention. The guy hit by the sword and the girl standing next to him are yakking away like they're taking a walk in a park. The guy didn't see the sword flying at him until the last second. Watch and see how late it was that he noticed 2 feet of razor blade flying at him! Either of them could have died due to a lack of situational awareness.

Lastly, there's no way observers should have been in front of the target or practitioner. Had the guy lost the sword before or during the sword hitting the target, there would have been no way an observer could have taken protective action.

Soooo, is the only place to learn real Japanese swordwork in Japan?

Don't think so... The only place to learn real swordwork is from people competent in teaching and using a Japanese sword, regardless of where they live.

There's no question that there are very few competent or properly taught Japanese swordsmen in the US, but it appears there's at least some incompetent Japanese swordsman in Japan too.

**Gunyo Kogusoku** · 04-04-2009, 09:22

Christ almighty!

Toby,

The lack of respect & awareness for the weapon and people around him would have gotten anyone in the various dojo I have trained at a big round of f'&$s from the dojo-cho or sensei presiding.

The fact that the practitioner doing the tameshigiri laughed it off after throwing the blade shows how unimportant some koryu are being treated by practitioners from it's country of origin.

At the Nagoya castle demonstration a few years back while filming for Russ, I saw a bunch of aikidoka laughing at Yakumaru Jigen-ryu, because of their kiai, kamae and training methods. I thought it was disgraceful that these guys were not showing any budo nasake.

It's sadly deteriorating, however there are some dojo where it's taken very seriously. It's the red-headed stepkids that we are seeing right here on Youtube, not the fellas with proper teaching and pedigree that we are familiar with.

Just my 2 円 worth.

**Mekugi** · 04-08-2009, 17:02

Originally Posted by Toby Threadgill

Soooo, is the only place to learn real Japanese swordwork in Japan?

Don't think so... The only place to learn real swordwork is from people competent in teaching and using a Japanese sword, regardless of where they live.

There's no question that there are very few competent or properly taught Japanese swordsmen in the US, but it appears there's at least some incompetent Japanese swordsman in Japan too.

Very well spoken.

Maybe that is why many branches of MJER don't do tameshigiri.

(Before anyone throws stones..that is a joke).

Oddly enough...I know this group. They always run into problems, this one was big.

The feel at the Tagata Jinja Fertility festival (Honin Matsuri...and yes this is the penis shrine here in Aichi) is usually informal and whimsical, to say the least. I mean, how many places in Japan can you see adults running around with giant wooden phallises other than the public transportation system? This may be why he lost his grip....butter fingers....ok, I won't go there....

Either way, they were not paying proper respect to what really counts, which is all about the matters of life and death. It's a "good lesson" in that no one was killed.

Good post Toby. Thanks for that.

-R

**Mekugi** · 04-08-2009, 17:08

Originally Posted by Gunyo Kogusoku

Christ almighty!
At the Nagoya castle demonstration a few years back while filming for Russ, I saw a bunch of aikidoka laughing at Yakumaru Jigen-ryu, because of their kiai, kamae and training methods. I thought it was disgraceful that these guys were not showing any budo nasake.

University kids. They are just in the Aikido club at their Uni...it's not serious to them. Why they don't point and snigger at the kenbu demonstration is beyond me....usually I just leave during that part. I can't stand it.

**Gunyo Kogusoku** · 04-09-2009, 21:36

Originally Posted by Mekugi

University kids. They are just in the Aikido club at their Uni...it's not serious to them. Why they don't point and snigger at the kenbu demonstration is beyond me....usually I just leave during that part. I can't stand it.

No they weren't Russ, I was sitting right in front of them and looked back while I was filming for you. They were a bunch of men in their 30's, 40's & 50's. It wasn't the Yoshinkan aikido crowd from Kansai, they were mustard and their embu was awesome. I think the bunch of older aikidoka who were laughing at the Jigen-ryu crowd were aikikai or some variant.

**Mekugi** · 04-09-2009, 22:38

Originally Posted by Gunyo Kogusoku

No they weren't Russ, I was sitting right in front of them and looked back while I was filming for you. They were a bunch of men in their 30's, 40's & 50's. It wasn't the Yoshinkan aikido crowd from Kansai, they were mustard and their embu was awesome. I think the bunch of older aikidoka who were laughing at the Jigen-ryu crowd were aikikai or some variant.

Eww..that changes everything. I thought they were the kids.

Next time lets slap them in the back of the head. It's not like they can do anything about it

.

**Mekugi** · 04-21-2009, 10:39

Originally Posted by Gunyo Kogusoku

No they weren't Russ, I was sitting right in front of them and looked back while I was filming for you.

I checked it out. I filmed the Yakumaru Jigen Ryu Embu. I went up to demonstration entrance, right in front of them (and credited myself on youtube). I can hear you talking to me as I took the camera and moved forward to the entrance, something only myself and a few others can do there (pushing the envelope of the filming area). You are talking about someone else, not the Aiki-kai fellas. Dunno who!

**Gunyo Kogusoku** · 04-21-2009, 11:43

Originally Posted by Mekugi

I checked it out. I filmed the Yakumaru Jigen Ryu Embu. I went up to demonstration entrance, right in front of them (and credited myself on youtube). I can hear you talking to me as I took the camera and moved forward to the entrance, something only myself and a few others can do there (pushing the envelope of the filming area). You are talking about someone else, not the Aiki-kai fellas. Dunno who!

You missed the first part of that embu. You were still getting changed.