Learning proper movement

[Seeker2112]

Earlier today, I was reading an issue of Asian Martial Arts. Within this issue, a review of a Tai Chi Chuan DVD mentioned that the instructor, Dr. Hwa, stated that the key is for one to learn to move (13 basic postures and the proper means by which to move between them) and breath properly. Once those attributes have been acquired, the practitioner will instinctively execute martial techniques. I was very intrigued, even fascinated, by such a concept. Does anyone here have any thoughts on this?

[CEB]

...... Once those attributes have been acquired, the practitioner will instinctively execute martial techniques. I was very intrigued, even fascinated, by such a concept. Does anyone here have any thoughts on this?

Yeah. Personally I think it is bull ****. But that is just me. I don't think you can under estimate the effect of someone really trying to tear your head off on your proper movement and proper breathing.

You learn martial technique through martial action. But that is just me.

I'm no expert. But I have done some Taijiquan.

[Seeker2112]

Yeah. Personally I think it is bull ****. But that is just me. I don't think you can under estimate the effect of someone really trying to tear your head off on your proper movement and proper breathing.

You learn martial technique through martial action. But that is just me.

I'm no expert. But I have done some Taijiquan.

Okay. I guess that's one for "no." LOL

This is good. I really want everyone's opinion. As some of you may have seen in another post, I'm in the process of picking a martial to start with. With the limited selection in my area, it seems as though it's going to be between TKD or Tai Chi/Hsing-I/Ba Qua. So, please keep the opinions comming.

[CEB]

Taiji, Hsing Yi, and Bagua are fine arts. ..... If you can find a real teacher!

Bagua is complex. Possibly some of the most complex stuff I have ever seen.

But IMO simply learning proper Taiji stepping and proper taiji body is not going to teach you how to fight. Which is what I thought your quote alluded to.

I know a Bagua man that tear you a new one. But he learned to do that by crossing hands.

Good Hsing Yi is cool. The Hsing Yi guys I've seen thump each other.

[Seeker2112]

Taiji, Hsing Yi, and Bagua are fine arts. ..... If you can find a real teacher!

Bagua is complex. Possibly some of the most complex stuff I have ever seen.

But IMO simply learning proper Taiji stepping and proper taiji body is not going to teach you how to fight. Which is what I thought your quote alluded to.

I know a Bagua man that tear you a new one. But he learned to do that by crossing hands.

Good Hsing Yi is cool. The Hsing Yi guys I've seen thump each other.

You nailed it. That was exactly what I was indicating. As to whether or not this local guy is a real teacher, I don't know. He came very highly recommened by a friend of mine who had taken his classes for years. From what I understand, the man grew up in Taiwan during a time of turmoil in mainland China. During this time, many of the Tai Chi/Hsing-I/Ba Qua masters fled the mainland for Taiwan. From there, this local man learned his art from these masters and the rest is history.

[Koshu]

. . . Dr. Hwa, stated that the key is for one to learn to move (13 basic postures and the proper means by which to move between them) and breath properly. Once those attributes have been acquired, the practitioner will instinctively execute martial techniques. . . .

On one high level, this is true, since actions over time become behaviors which in turn can become habits. Basic body movements and positions are components of techniques, or could be techniques unto themselves, depending on the art and/or scenario. For example, because of the style I practice, I find myself step-shuffling to make room for people in the elevator, holding a glass with my index finger extended, and other behaviors/habits I've developed due to my training. Some of these even comes out spontaneously and as hoped for on the mat, LOL!

But if the intent of the "martial techniques" mentioned in the original post means "martial techniques against another person" -- whether pertaining to cooperative or resisting training partners -- then I agree with Ed. Imagine trying to learn a paired dance style (e.g. swing, ballroom, Latin) without a partner, then trying out your spiffy new moves with the girl of your choice. Good luck getting a second date (unless you learned in secret to pleasantly surprise her, in which case she might give you an "A" for effort and a chance at another date [which doesn't alleviate the reality that you suck]).

[swdw]

You learn martial technique through martial action. But that is just me.

I'm no expert.

Ed, you crack me up. How long have you been training and teaching? "I'm no expert". Sure, and steak is a vegetable too.

I agree with Ed. Practicing the movements is only the first step. Until interaction with an opponent is included, you haven't applied the moves. In fact they often fall apart at first when an individual has his first experience of "crossing arms". Usefulness is developed through continued interaction with another person.

That said, there are some taiji people out there that are phenomenal fighters. I've had the privilege of meeting 2 individuals that fall into that category.

But I also know some Hsing yi, or Xing yi (you pick) people that will whale on you

[loki]

What does this guy mean when he says 'execute?' And, as far as I learned from Psych 101, it is impossible to 'learn an instinct.' I know it's not meant to be literal, but for the sake of accuracy, I wanted to couch my response in the idea that I have to make a distinction between learned behavior and instinctive behavior.

From my Kenpo training we learned technical progress as Form Power Focus Speed.

If Dr. Hwa is talking about breathing and technique purely at the "form" level in that equation AND if he is talking about using Tai Chi to repel an attack.....that isn't accurate IMO.

If, on the other hand, he's talking about Tai Chi in terms of moving meditation/healing/Chi Gung benefits, then I could see how it is 'true' if you embrace the whole internal arts/chi concept. It would make sense there that proper form would enhance the affect of the Chi Gung benefits.

Earlier today, I was reading an issue of Asian Martial Arts. Within this issue, a review of a Tai Chi Chuan DVD mentioned that the instructor, Dr. Hwa, stated that the key is for one to learn to move (13 basic postures and the proper means by which to move between them) and breath properly. Once those attributes have been acquired, the practitioner will instinctively execute martial techniques. I was very intrigued, even fascinated, by such a concept. Does anyone here have any thoughts on this?

[Musubi Dojo]

I'm of the same mind as everyone else.

If he meant laying a foundation of skills before learning to apply them then sure, but "wax on, wax off" alone does not a fighter make.