Obama demands we all learn Spanish

[Jeff C.]

In light of Obama's proclamation that we all must learn Spanish to be proper and responsible Americans, I thought I would offer this below.

Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag. We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language. and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

Jeff Cook

[torbjork]

Your point being that the USA of today is exactly the same, socially and demographically speaking, as it was in 1907?

Why is it that Americans (and the English) are so reluctant to learn a foreign language? Spanish would make a very sensible choice as a compulsory second language in primary/middle school, due most importantly to the proximity of large Spanish-speaking countries that the US has considerable interaction with.

[TonyU]

Your point being that the USA of today is exactly the same, socially and demographically speaking, as it was in 1907?

Why is it that Americans (and the English) are so reluctant to learn a foreign language? Spanish would make a very sensible choice as a compulsory second language in primary/middle school, due most importantly to the proximity of large Spanish-speaking countries that the US has considerable interaction with.

It's not a problem about learning another language and being at least bilingual. It's about learning another language to cater to the masses that come here and won't learn ours. Big difference. When my parents emigrated here in the 60's they knew that to survive and become Americans they needed to learn the language and they did. Nothing was catered to them in their own language as it is now.
Btw, I'm bilingual.

[David Craik]

Because we darn well shouldn't have to, to interact with people within the borders of our own nation.

Proficiency in a language learned in middle school or high school will deteriorate if not used, and the fact of the matter is that most Americans don't have personal contact with other countries too often. I once spoke fluent Afrikaans and Sotho, and was quite good in Spanish as well, which I aced in high school. But unfortunately most of this is lost now.

* cross-posted with Tony * - he hit the nail right on the head.

[Jeff C.]

Torb, I have had three years of Spanish instruction, and I can get by with the language in a very basic way.

A practical danger we run into in this country is this: there is a movement by some liberals to make our schools bilingual. We already have enough problems with English-speaking kids failing English classes. Making schools bilingual would be disastrous, and unfair.

What about all of the immigrants we have that are NOT from a Spanish-speaking country? Will we then require that they become trilingual?

The whole notion of forcing or shaming English-speaking Americans to study Spanish is typically liberal-ridiculous. Besides, when I was in high school there was a school requirement that you MUST take a foreign language and pass it. I think it had something to do with college acceptance. I totally agree with making it a requirement to take a foreign language class, but let them chose which one they want to take.

Jeff Cook

[Jeff C.]

Torb, read this. It is a history of immigration/demographics for the US. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History..._United_States At no time was it suggested that any Americans SHOULD learn German, Polish, Italian, French, etc.

Jeff Cook

[Michael J. Bray]

I have to agree with Jeff. Obama frankly scares me. Sorry if that offends. Just fact.

[STORMCROW34]

Schools are struggling with funding now....who's going to pay for all of those extra teachers when most school systems (at least where I live) are cutting back heavily on existing faculty positions?

It's just B.S. He's pandering to the Hispanic community for votes.

[KZMiller]

Obama doesn't scare me. I kinda like the guy. But I think he's off base. It would be a different matter if he encouraged more people to become bilingual. But institutionalizing it is isn't necessary or even a good idea. As others have said, other immigrants are expected (and expect themselves) to learn English as part of doing business in the USA. While it's nice that lots of folks plan on helping them out by learning foreign languages, this isn't a bilingual nation.
I've been to nations where it's expected that people will be (at least) bilingual and I liked it a lot. But the US isn't one of those nations and shouldn't have to become one because of pressure from an immigrant population.

[Erik]

I like what Tony, David, and Kami added.

Personally, I believe everyone should be fluent in two languages and able to get by in a third (with hang gestures, pantomime, whatever it takes).

Don't think it should be politically mandated, just a good idea and, if someone wants my respect, being at least a little bit multi-lingual helps.

I nominate Mandarin, Arabic, and Russian as 2nd and 3rd languages for the present era.

[Lame Leopard]

English: Let's practice. Hello there pretty girl!

Spanish: Vamos a practicar. Ola senorita bonita!

[KZMiller]

Besides, if everyone was bilingual then a bunch of people would lose their language bonuses at work.

[rouse]

In light of Obama's proclamation that we all must learn Spanish to be proper and responsible Americans, I thought I would offer this below.

Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag. We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language. and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

Jeff Cook

Teddy was right on target with his statements. He was looking out for what was best for America as a Nation and doing what it would take to make it into the World power it is today.

English is the language of International language of commerce, that’s why English is so important. If your interest is in keep poor people poor and oppressed, diverting their attention away from the language of commerce is one good way to accomplish that goal.

Beware of the underlying motive of anyone that suggests such divisive tactics. Assimilation into any countries population is what brings a country together as a Nation. Dividing groups up by ethnicity or with language barriers is a ploy to maintain control over a certain demographic group of individuals, while weakening the country as a whole.

Frankly; I question weather or not Obama has a clue, as to what it really means to be an American or, is this some socialistic play for more government control of the People,at the expense of our country.

Rouse

[KZMiller]

Ooo, very good point about language barriers and economic viability of individuals who rely on their native language instead of learning English. Even if we were a bilingual nation it might worsen, not better the situation for Spanish-speaking immigrants. Just thinking about it makes me shiver. So many people treat immigrants like second class (or no class!) citizens anyway. English wouldn't just be the language of commerce but the language of the elite. Yuck.

[Erik]

Besides, if everyone was bilingual then a bunch of people would lose their language bonuses at work.

Humph! ()

Let's see, in my office:
EE who makes components my SW runs on - Mandarin (mainland)
Boss - Mandarin and Cantonese, French
Mech. Eng. - Shanghai dialect
Sr. SW. Eng (my partner) - Polish, Russian, German
VP - Serbian, Russian
Design Control Guy - Tagalog
Scientists - Pashtun, Hindi
Old VP - Arabic, Berber, French, Italian
Then there's me - High German, Bavarian German, some French (I'm the dummy here). Plus, I can cuss in most of these languages.

...and ALL of us can order beer in Spanish.

Similar mix in my apartment complex (plus baby talk - but I'm not sure how to order a beer in that language ).

And all of us can speak English, of course, which I consider very important to be American (but I'm pretty flexible on how good the English needs to be and I certainly make allowances for people to take some time and learn - it's not always easy.)

I am often amazed that other regions of the USA are not like this. It just doesn't cross my mind not to learn enough of each of these languages to be polite, find a bathroom, or make a joke.

[rouse]

Ooo, very good point about language barriers and economic viability of individuals who rely on their native language instead of learning English. Even if we were a bilingual nation it might worsen, not better the situation for Spanish-speaking immigrants. Just thinking about it makes me shiver. So many people treat immigrants like second class (or no class!) citizens anyway. English wouldn't just be the language of commerce but the language of the elite. Yuck.

That is exactly the point I was making. The “Elite” folks will keep their poor little Spaniards poor, and rule over them at will. That is of coarse, as long as they let them know just how much they feel their "pain".

That always seems to work when a select group of people think that they are getting something “special” at the expense of someone perceived to be doing better off than they are.

That is why Democracies always fail; as soon as people discover that they can vote themselves benefits at the expense of others, its down hill from then on. Irregardless of the fact, that they are being used for someone else’s power hungry motives, or what’s good for the Nation as a whole.

Rouse

[David Craik]

When I can move to and be employed in a small city in central Mexico without needing to being able to speak Spanish at even a basic level then I will be all for it.

I have been to many different countries, and the very first thing I did before I went is pick up an English/'insert language here' dictionary or at least a phrasebook and try to at least learn enough to get around. Who knew that 'pepperoni' will only get you puzzled looks in Italy? Not only to make it easier on myself, but to show some respect to the people whose country I am a guest in. Many seem quite impressed that you at least make the attempt, even though you may only be there for a week or so and fumble with their language horribly. Should we not expect the same from a person who intends to live here permanently? I have yet to travel somewhere that you are not expected to know the language in order to live and work there (outside of Palma De Mallorca, which seems to have a helluva lot more Brits than Spaniards).

In my job I have contact with quite a few Hispanic folk. Being an immigrant myself, I have a lot of respect for most of these guys. They work damn hard trying to make a decent life for themselves and their families. But if a man has lived here for a number of years and still speaks next to none of the language, it absolutely boggles my mind. Their countrymen in the past were certainly not this way, as Tony mentioned.

I cannot imagine living in a country for that long and not being able to communicate effectively, put quite bluntly I consider it rather rude and all these folks are doing is limiting themselves. I can only chalk it up to living by choice in a cultural cocoon without any desire to assimilate into the melting pot we call America, as they are apparently resistant to melting. By making concessions to it we only divide our country further; the same as we do with many racial and cultural concessions in our quest for über-political correctness and self-hate. Being proud of where you came from is great, as long as it doesn't come at the expense of putting to work the knowledge of where you are now. You don't see me wandering around speaking Gàidhlig or Afrikaans to people, and expect them to cater to me by learning the language.

English, like Spanish, Italian, and French are all Latin-based. It isn't that super-difficult for a speaker of one to learn another. It's not a tonal language based on a completely different 'alphabet' like Thai or Arabic. I found it rather amusing on recruiting duty that we had pamphlets printed entirely in Spanish. If a person cannot speak English well enough to read a friggin' pamphlet, just how in the hell are they going to meet the minimum requirements on the ASVAB in order to enlist anyway?

Italians and Russian Jews came by the thousands to this country and learned the language. Spanish speaking people from many nations did as well, also folk from many other countries. I see no reason to mandate that US citizens speak any foreign language, much less a particular one. Our de facto national language is English. You want to live here you can learn it as far as I'm concerned. Even a cursory effort will enable one to speak the language as well as most Americans, who butcher the hell out of it. Nope, no signs in Spanish, no ATM displays in Spanish, no job announcements in Spanish. You want Spanish, move to Spain; they speak much slower there anyway. When I see the question of what language I want on an ATM screen, it quite frankly pi$$es me off.

It's nothing more than a bunch of pandering. You want to force U.S. citizens to speak another language? Make it Cherokee or Navajo.

Torb, I know that you are very well-travelled. However, in Europe there is much more cross-border travel by regular people than here due to the small size of the countries. I think I met more Swedes in Corfu than I did Greeks, and more Germans in Tunisia than native folk. You guys have a wide variety of language and culture in a relatively small area, and a penchant for cross-country travel due to the ease of same that doesn't exist here. Visit Socrates' Garden in Rhodes on any given summer night and count the number of Hellenic patrons. There aren't any, except the talking parrot at the gate. Saying Americans have an aversion to learning other languages is akin to being dismayed that so few Chinese know Russian.

It is up to the person to adapt to their environment and master it, not expect the environment to bend to their will.

[Jeff C.]

David, the US Army had ESL - English as a Second Language (they may still do; not sure). They would enlist someone, usually a Spanish speaker who could not speak English, and I *assume* they were given the ASVAB in Spanish. They ship them off to ESL, then on to the rest of their training. Not sure if that program still exists.

Believe it or not, we STILL have people in uniform who CANNOT speak English. I have run into a few Hispanics/Latinos in the Florida Guard who could not. Friggin' ridiculous.

I was listening to the Rush Limbaugh show today; there was a substitue host. He brought up a GREAT point. We have hundreds of thousands of native English-speakers in this country who cannot speak, read or write English very well at all. He says we should focus on becoming "lingual" before we think about "bilingual."

Jeff Cook

[Ramirez]

English, like Spanish, Italian, and French are all Latin-based.

Just one correction, English is not a Romantic language, it shares the same roots as the German language. There is some Latin influence because the French speaking Vikings that conquered England used it and at one time a Latin grammar was tried to be imposed on English...which is why you can "to go boldly" but not "to boldly go".

[David Craik]

One of my drill instructor buddies had a recruit from Nigeria who couldn't speak a lick of English, he regrettably had to be discharged (he was apparently a real motivated fellow too). Nobody knew how in the hell he got in, I think his recruiter was crooked as hell. I had never heard of a Spanish version of the ASVAB...I know that such a version wasn't available for testing anywhere around where I was. I could have doubled my quota.

I can give hundreds of examples of English words which have a Latin base which are similar or related to Spanish and Italian words. There's no 'correction' about it, it is the very basis of why I could grasp Spanish and Italian to some degree. With a basic understanding of Latin and Greek roots it is not hard to decipher many words from all these languages (though I admit French gives me real problems - attempting to boldly go where others have had the gumption to go boldly ).