Think your rights are safe?

**jwinch2** · 11-03-2008, 14:21

Senator Obama voices his support for a federal ban on concealed carry permits.

LINK

I know some of you consider this to be a dead issue now that the Heller decision has been made. I do not think this is issue is dead at all. With an overwhelming majority in congress, the presidency, and no way of stopping the appointment of liberal judges, this will come up in an Obama administration.

**Webmaster** · 11-03-2008, 15:13

If the Obama, Pelosi, Reid trio are in power, then none of our rights are safe.

**Erik** · 11-03-2008, 15:32

Originally Posted by Webmaster

If the Obama, Pelosi, Reid trio are in power, then none of our rights are safe.

Funny, that's what I thought about the Bush, Cheney, and Ashcroft gang.

**Budoka34** · 11-03-2008, 16:03

Funny, that's what I thought about the Bush, Cheney, and Ashcroft gang.

As much as we may not like every thing President Bush and Company have done they have done it with the complete support of a Democrat led congress.

If you think the Patriot Act is bad wait til you see what's in store for us under Obama and Biden.

Obama has stated many time his belief that no-one has a right to defend themselves armed or unarmed.

**Erik** · 11-03-2008, 16:06

Originally Posted by Budoka34

Obama has stated many time his belief that no-one has a right to defend themselves armed or unarmed.

I doubt that. That's too stupid a thing to say for any serious candidate.

**jwinch2** · 11-03-2008, 16:21

Unfortunately Erik it is actually the case. Obama voted to allow prosecution of those who defend themselves from attack with firearms in Illinois and has stated his support for such acts multiple times.

As for the rest, you are right in your earlier statements to some extent. I have been appalled at the attacks that the right to privacy has been subjected to under the current administration. Unfortunately I also agree with Randy that I think things would be worse under an Obama administration with a democratic congress. Obama himself has already shown willingness to support curtailing individual freedoms from the right to bear arms to freedom of speech.

**Erik** · 11-03-2008, 16:28

Originally Posted by jwinch2

Unfortunately Erik it is actually the case. Obama voted to allow prosecution of those who defend themselves from attack with firearms in Illinois and has stated his support for such acts multiple times

It's certainly noteworthy enough to perk up one's ears but I'd want to see the details of the cases before claiming that

Originally Posted by Budoka34

Obama has stated many time his belief that no-one has a right to defend themselves armed or unarmed.

Can't get from B to A here without a lot more explanation.

I'm curious to see what the ACLU-type afraid-of-the-gov't people would do in the face of the dems in control of two branches. That's also something that perks up the ears.

Somehow, that scares me less, though, than a guy (whom I otherwise respect) singing "bomb bomb Iran..." on TV.

**Dennis Monk** · 11-03-2008, 16:53

This is no funny matter in the slightest. As a voter, I vote for my gun rights almost first and foremost every time. Obama and his left wing Marxist colleagues will most certainly begin to infringe on our gun rights. I am sure it will start with small and seemingly innocuous legislation; which we certainly won't need. Things will then begin to deteriorate for those of us who cherish this "inalienable" right. If the gun haters want to enact tough, strict gun laws why don't they come us with something that makes sense?
Something like:
1. Commit a crime and go to prison
a. Never be able to own a firearm again (federally)
2. Commit a crime with a gun and do more time in prison
a. See "a" above
b. If death is caused, get the death penalty or life without parole
3. Get arrested for possessing a firearm as a felon and go back to prison
a. Serve time in state prison
b. Serve time in federal prison
4. Commit a crime with a gun having been a previously convicted felon and get many more years in prison
a. Serve time in state prison
b. Serve time in federal prison
c. See 2(b)
5. Commit a third felony, regardless and get life in prison as a habitual criminal

Oh, that's right, never mind. We already have this legislation and won't enforce it.

**Budoka34** · 11-03-2008, 17:04

Can't get from B to A here without a lot more explanation.

I'm curious to see what the ACLU-type afraid-of-the-gov't people would do in the face of the dems in control of two branches. That's also something that perks up the ears.

Erik,

I truly hope you're joking.

Have you looked at his voting record? He sponsored legislation that denied a homeowner the right to defend themselves in their own home! It's public record.

He has publicly stated on several occasions that no-one has the right to self-defense if it will cause harm or injury to another.

I’ve heard the speeches myslef.

If I can find it in writing or a clip I'll post it.

As for if the other side is better or worse, I'll leave that to to others.

**Webmaster** · 11-03-2008, 18:17

The link is from the NRA, but it's sourced and you can look them up.

http://www.nraila.org/OBAMA/

**Michael J. Bray** · 11-03-2008, 19:26

Gentlemen (and ladies).Remember what we had just come out of revolution and won our independence when our constitution was written. It was written by those who understood opressive and overbearing government. They knew when they penned the document that in order for the American people to remain free that they must always have the "teeth" to uphold their freedom, and the are their arms. There are political factions that have an agenda not in the best interest of your freedom, but cannot implement that agenda while you still have your "teeth". I'm NOT about to vote for any "dentists" even though I don't really like my choices this time around. If you loose your second ammendment right it is a certainty that you will loose the rest of them. If you think the government can and will protect you, that gun bans keep you from crime just look to Great Britain. (See what we freed ourselves from once?)

**Maro** · 11-03-2008, 21:22

Originally Posted by Michael J. Bray

If you think the government can and will protect you, that gun bans keep you from crime just look to Great Britain. (See what we freed ourselves from once?)

What is that supposed to mean? The murder rate in US is massively higher than the UK. Are you suggesting that you shoot potential villains?

**jwinch2** · 11-03-2008, 21:33

Yeah, and your rate has gone up since your big gun ban that was supposed to reduce crime. Your country does not have a history and tradition of gun ownership and as such I would not expect you to understand our position on this issue. As for your question, if someone is in my house or attacks my person or my wife, I will damn well shoot them. End of story.

**Maro** · 11-04-2008, 00:15

Originally Posted by jwinch2

Yeah, and your rate has gone up since your big gun ban that was supposed to reduce crime. Your country does not have a history and tradition of gun ownership and as such I would not expect you to understand our position on this issue. As for your question, if someone is in my house or attacks my person or my wife, I will damn well shoot them. End of story.

That's all well and good but casting aspersions on British situations is, as you say, no comparison due to the lack of gun ownership.

**Webmaster** · 11-04-2008, 06:30

Mat, SHUT UP!

Please stay out of a discussion to which you (a) don't have any particular investment, and (b) don't know sh!t about. You have pretty well demonstrated your hostility toward gun ownership in the past, and the fact that you continue to jump in with your uninformed and stupid opinions in my judgment constitutes trolling. Stop it. If you want to get into a gun debate in a gun debate thread, that's OK. This thread is not about gun ownership, it's about a politician's position on guns. We are interested in his position and how it might affect our votes, not yours.

**Maro** · 11-04-2008, 16:22

Originally Posted by Webmaster

Mat, SHUT UP!

Please stay out of a discussion to which you (a) don't have any particular investment, and (b) don't know sh!t about. You have pretty well demonstrated your hostility toward gun ownership in the past, and the fact that you continue to jump in with your uninformed and stupid opinions in my judgment constitutes trolling. Stop it. If you want to get into a gun debate in a gun debate thread, that's OK. This thread is not about gun ownership, it's about a politician's position on guns. We are interested in his position and how it might affect our votes, not yours.

Nice.

So its ok to bash someone else's country to make a point.

I have no hostility to guns - I have owned them in the past and shot to marksmen level.

No doubt you'll take offense to that as well.

**Webmaster** · 11-04-2008, 16:24

Originally Posted by Maro

Nice.

So its ok to bash someone else's country to make a point.

I have no hostility to guns - I have owned them in the past and shot to marksmen level.

No doubt you'll take offense to that as well.

There was no bashing. Now shut up.

**Jay Bell** · 11-04-2008, 17:07

Australia supposed that the crime rate would drop if a gun ban occurred. Here was the result:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=15304

**David Craik** · 11-04-2008, 18:11

I don't think there was bashing, Mr. Rous, but it is a common belief over here that after guns were banned in the U.K. (as a result of the Dunblane incident), that burglary and sundry other crime rates climbed quite a bit. Statistics I've read seem to support this.

**Maro** · 11-04-2008, 18:44

Originally Posted by David Craik

I don't think there was bashing, Mr. Rous, but it is a common belief over here that after guns were banned in the U.K. (as a result of the Dunblane incident), that burglary and sundry other crime rates climbed quite a bit. Statistics I've read seem to support this.

I'm not allowed to comment on it.