Major Outside Reap Throw Counter?

[hollon1usmc]

Anyone have a good counter for the Major Outside Reap Throw? We learned it in the Brown Belt course I am currently taking for MCMAP and everyone keeps attempting to use it while we are sparing but I want to counter it with technique. It is not hard for me to just stay back from my opponet when we end up in a clinch type hold because of my size being that I am 6'4" 240 and the rest of the class is under 5'10" 195. Do not think I am picking on little guys that is just the way it happened. I find that I can eventually just overpower them and get the advantage but I am looking for more of a technique so that when I may face say "Ivan Draco" I am not the one to get over powered!

[sooner_sadiq]

I tihnk the counter should be the same throw against them. It will just be whomever breaks the others balance. But im not judoka so take it for what its worth.

[Nick L.]

The counter to major outside reap throw is major outside reap throw (O Soto Gari) in Japanese, since you are bigger and stronger it should be easy. You just have to not give up you balance and take theirs when they are one one foot then voila' reap the leg.

It's so easy little girls can do it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzf4YF1UCbY

[hollon1usmc]

Is that it? Just doing the reap throw before the opponent does? Remember I am not going for any type of points and this is not a competition even if someone has some bizarre maneuver they think might be achievable from the clinch before the reap throw is even attempted please let me know! When they go for the reap I have stepped back and swept their other leg while they are off balanced but this still seems like I am using muscule to accomplish what technique should.

[CEB]

{ my connectionion whacked out Double post}

[CEB]

Is that it? Just doing the reap throw before the opponent does? Remember I am not going for any type of points and this is not a competition even if someone has some bizarre maneuver they think might be achievable from the clinch before the reap throw is even attempted please let me know! When they go for the reap I have stepped back and swept their other leg while they are off balanced but this still seems like I am using muscule to accomplish what technique should.

No there are 2 ways to counter O Soto with O Soto.

1) Beat'em to the punch.

2) Use what I call the pendulum leg.

[rgoad]

If the person trying the osotogari does not break your posture, he is just setting himself up for the technique as your counter. If he does go after your posture but you can get some separation at the hip you can counter with Harai Goshi.

What can happen is the guy comes in hard and sort of bumps your hips. You can take advantage of the rebound to get a gap, your leg that is outside the throw might skip back a bit. Then you use your leg closest to the guy to lift his hip as you turn his shoulders. Think like you are hiking up a heavy ruck with your thigh to sling it onto one shoulder, but instead you turn your upper body and toss it to the ground while the hiking leg stays off the ground. This is a really good counter to osoto gari for use by someone with your height advantage because the attacker's feet loose traction pretty quick as they go up and over.

The key, as with all this stuff, is to get his balance coming toward you and across your chest. He gives you a bit of that with his attack. You have you redirect it across your chest and turn to essentially trip him over your thigh. It's like a high tai otoshi, but the tripping leg is off the ground.

Now I know what they mean by Dog Teams.

[Nick L.]

No there are 2 ways.

1) Beat'em two the punch like you are talking about.

2) Use what I call the pendulum leg.

Are you saying when they reap your leg to let it go with theirs and them get em on the back swing?


I have found that after they come in, if they have not broken your balance you can turn the outside and reap through both legs with what Ed is calling the Pendulum leg. It is hard to remain upright though, for me at least.

( I guess what I just posted would qualify the same as Harai Goshi, like Richard posted)

[CEB]

Are you saying when they reap your leg to let it go with theirs and them get em on the back swing?


I have found that after they come in, if they have not broken your balance you can turn the outside and reap through both legs with what Ed is calling the Pendulum leg. It is hard to remain upright though, for me at least.

( I guess what I just posted would qualify the same as Harai Goshi, like Richard posted)

Yes. That is it. I am not as good at it as my teacher was.

How 'I' handle O Soto is to try it control and stuff his entries. If my opponent wins the battle for kuzushi I am screwed any way. My counters that usually come off his failed O soto attempts are 1) Tai Otoshi and 2 ) Harai Makikomi.

But that is just me and Judo. I don't know anything about this USMC killer stuff.

[Nick L.]

My counters that usually come off his failed O soto attempts are 1) Tai Otoshi and 2 ) Harai Makikomi.

Now were talkin', Makikomi. But if Nicholas was to pull that off, he would probably kill the other Devil Dog.

[rgoad]

Now were talkin', Makikomi. But if Nicholas was to pull that off, he would probably kill the other Devil Dog.

Shoulda though of that before he grabbed him.

[hollon1usmc]

I do not think I am going for the kill aspect just yet but in the highly unlikely chance that I would use this against the enemy then his bad for grabbing my rather large self and he deserves what he gets! Remember Highly unlikely chance because I will use my E-tool if thats all I got before it gets to H2H.

Thanks for all of the input so far....

[Jeff C.]

You guys are putting out some good stuff, but how about thinking outside the box now and then? Quit thinking like a seaman; think like a Marine!

Go with the throw; slap a jujigatame (cross-body armlock) on him. He gets to throw you, you get to break his arm. Seems like a good trade to me. (Think "flying arm bar" in the BJJ sense. I will describe it if need be. It is a brilliant "counter" to o-sotogari.)

Jeff Cook

[CEB]

You guys are putting out some good stuff, but how about thinking outside the box now and then? Quit thinking like a seaman; think like a Marine!

Go with the throw; slap a jujigatame (cross-body armlock) on him. He gets to throw you, you get to break his arm. Seems like a good trade to me. (Think "flying arm bar" in the BJJ sense. I will describe it if need be. It is a brilliant "counter" to o-sotogari.)

Jeff Cook

I can't see it. Maybe it is just the weird way I do O-Soto Gari. When I do O-Soto I put the forearm of the arm gripping the lapel into my opponents sternum and I drive it through chest down to the mat. If I do it right I am on top giving no space.

I TRY to have body to body contact through the throw cause reaching gets me killed but I suck so I make mistakes all the time.

[Abbax8]

If you know he is going to attack with O-Soto-Gari, wait for it, stay upright and balanced. As they move in (if they are reaping your right leg), stay planted on your right leg and pivot on it backwards as they move in. They will crash to the ground.

Peace

Dennis

[rgoad]

I can't see it. Maybe it is just the way I do O-Soto Gari and I am not normal. When I do O-Soto the but the forearm of the arm gripping the lapel into my opponents sternum and I drive it to the mat. If I do it right I am on top giving no space.

I TRY to have body to body contact through the throw cause reaching gets me killed but I suck so I make mistakes all the time.

Me, too. If I understand Jeff's counter he has to have a HUGE gap to get the knee between you. If the Osoto Gari is entered correctly tori's shoulder AND my hip are past his hip. If he gets too clingy I can land on top of him.

[Erik]

I like what Jeff wrote. Cool!

Anyone have any luck coming around the sweeping side (say our L and his R), clamping the arms around the waist, planting the (L) foot behind his (L) foot, and rolling to the (L), landing together but riding the roll to the top?

I'm sure there is a Japanese and an English name for this one. I seem to have reasonably good luck with it pretty reliably. I wish I understood it a bit better.

[Tony Dismukes]

I've never been able to work the juji-gatame counter to a properly done osoto-gari for the reason Ed outlines - tori should not be giving up that much space.

I have been shown a similar setup for the armbar which might be more likely to work. Tori fakes an off-balance osoto attempt from too far away, baiting uke to take the obvious counter-sweep. When uke does so, tori falls back for the armbar. As tori falls back for the armbar, he brings the shin of the leg which was attempting the fake osoto between the two bodies, so as to prevent uke from closing down the space and just taking side-control.

Using this setup lures uke into using osoto without that close body contact.

As far as a typical osoto counter, I like the pivot that Dennis mentions.

[rgoad]

That's like a duck under in wrestling? There is a Judo throw, Maybe Ushiro wakare (that's a name guess) that does the same thing.

Again, the idea is to have control of the shoulders and thereby the tori body. His chest and shoulder is plastered to your chest like a bug on a windshield and you are over balancing him to his rear corner. If you set that part up right the reap is just extra.

If the guy has, like lots of people do, gotten his hips too far in front of his chest, then you can do like Dennis said and 'root' and get his reversal. Instead of him getting a duck under, you end up getting him with an irimi nage.

To get the arm bar he either has to bring his knee into your armpit/lat or around to your chest very early in the entry. Either way he was not committed to the osoto gari and we are talking about a different technique altogether.

[andyb28]

Not sure if this is going to come out right, but here goes.

You put your front arm across their neck, elbow side to the neck, then your other arm, grabs behind the knee. Then push with your front arm and lift with your back arm.