Kurama Yoshin Ryu on Youtube...

**Mekugi** · 03-18-2009, 08:37

This won't stay up long...I posted it as a favor...but thought to share the wealth...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc0Ycij9ST0

-Russ

**Brian R. VanCise** · 03-18-2009, 11:21

Interesting watch. Thanks Russ.

**morpheus** · 03-18-2009, 12:10

Russ,

Great clip. Thanks for posting, even for a brief time. Beautiful makimono and densho.

Jeff

**Mark Barlow** · 03-18-2009, 16:17

Great clip. The way the sensei pushes and pulls the student's hip to move him around brought back a lot of memories. I can't ever remember any of my Japanese sensei repositioning my any other way. Of course, most didn't do it as gently as the sensei on the video did but I'm probably a lot more slow-witted than the student he was working with.

**Cron** · 03-20-2009, 06:11

Wonderful video!
Does somebody have more information about this school?

Regards,
Michael Reinhardt

**Mekugi** · 03-20-2009, 06:39

Originally Posted by Cron

Wonderful video!
Does somebody have more information about this school?

Regards,
Michael Reinhardt

Hi Mike!

That video gave an overview of the school...in Japanese.

Let me see what I can do...

-Russ

**Cron** · 03-20-2009, 10:09

Hi Russ,

no way! Japanese! Oh my god! Thought is was a kind of chinese or something like that. But Japanese...I didn´t expect that!

You are amazing Russ!

Thanks for your efforts!

Mike

**Mekugi** · 03-20-2009, 10:57

Originally Posted by Cron

Hi Russ,

no way! Japanese! Oh my god! Thought is was a kind of chinese or something like that. But Japanese...I didn´t expect that!

You are amazing Russ!

Thanks for your efforts!

Mike

I couldn't help being a smart-arse....

**fifthchamber** · 03-22-2009, 19:11

Hey Russ,
Where did you come across that video?The school seems pretty interesting, but then any school with a connection to Yoshitsune would be high up there right?
Cool video...
Thanks

**Mekugi** · 03-23-2009, 08:40

Originally Posted by fifthchamber

Hey Russ,
Where did you come across that video?The school seems pretty interesting, but then any school with a connection to Yoshitsune would be high up there right?
Cool video...
Thanks

Someone gave it to me, they taped it off TV. I am not sure what show it came from. Yeah it seems high up there.

-R

**Ellis Amdur** · 03-23-2009, 14:32

7th/9th dai shihan. Mid-Edo period.
Incorporated Jigen-ryu principals for sword (it's a Kyushu ryu, correct?). Thus, the love-child of Yoshin-ryu jujutsu (started in Nagasaki) and Jigen-ryu.
Yoshitsune connection?
a) The tengu tobi - allegedly Yoshitsune learned from tengu in the precincts of Kurama dera
b) His absolutely legendary, no proof it ever existed in any way, shape or form kenjutsu featured leaps

Ellis Amdur

**Mekugi** · 03-24-2009, 17:20

Originally Posted by Ellis Amdur

b) His absolutely legendary, no proof it ever existed in any way, shape or form kenjutsu featured leaps

Ellis Amdur

But this one does, right?

**Ellis Amdur** · 03-24-2009, 17:53

That's my point.
So which came first - someone figures out, within the Yoshin-ryu tradition, a kenjutsu with "tengu tobi" - and finding this something to emphasize, links it to Kurama - or v-e-r-y dubious - somehow has a passed down kenjutsu from a period 500 years before there was "kenjutsu" in a ryu-ha sense, and only nine dai - three of whom are concurrently alive - descended from Yoshitsune? Given that half the ryu in the country claimed a founder centuries before the ryu founded, why would this be any different?
Ellis Amdur

**Mekugi** · 03-25-2009, 02:45

Originally Posted by Ellis Amdur

That's my point.
So which came first - someone figures out, within the Yoshin-ryu tradition, a kenjutsu with "tengu tobi" - and finding this something to emphasize, links it to Kurama - or v-e-r-y dubious - somehow has a passed down kenjutsu from a period 500 years before there was "kenjutsu" in a ryu-ha sense, and only nine dai - three of whom are concurrently alive - descended from Yoshitsune? Given that half the ryu in the country claimed a founder centuries before the ryu founded, why would this be any different?
Ellis Amdur

Dunno! If that is the case...then really all koryu bujutsu are suspect. Unless I am missing your meaning, it's easy to cite examples where the possible became possible. Apply salt liberally!!!

**Gunyo Kogusoku** · 03-25-2009, 05:45

Originally Posted by Ellis Amdur

That's my point.
So which came first - someone figures out, within the Yoshin-ryu tradition, a kenjutsu with "tengu tobi" - and finding this something to emphasize, links it to Kurama - or v-e-r-y dubious - somehow has a passed down kenjutsu from a period 500 years before there was "kenjutsu" in a ryu-ha sense, and only nine dai - three of whom are concurrently alive - descended from Yoshitsune? Given that half the ryu in the country claimed a founder centuries before the ryu founded, why would this be any different?
Ellis Amdur

The Yoshitsune angle to me seems to be a selling point, rather than a form of historical documentation. The school would require some serious documentation to even establish the relations with Yoshitsune.

**Mekugi** · 03-25-2009, 06:59

Originally Posted by Gunyo Kogusoku

The Yoshitsune angle to me seems to be a selling point, rather than a form of historical documentation. The school would require some serious documentation to even establish the relations with Yoshitsune.

Myself, not being one that knows the actual content of the ryu's history, not a member of the style and only one who has watched a clip of it off of T.V. and not one who can offer anything other than claptrap on what *I* think, I give you this:

If you want to contact the school and ask questions, I can give you an address to write to. They seem nice enough, they might even be willing to respond to you and give you their take on it.

Until then, perhaps one could crack the Bugeiryuha Daijiten and find them. (I did. Interesting.)

Until then, it's online conjecture for me and really, I'm not claiming to be an expert in anything other than the contents of my sock drawer!

-R

**Gunyo Kogusoku** · 03-25-2009, 07:22

Originally Posted by Mekugi

Myself, not being one that knows the actual content of the ryu's history, not a member of the style and only one who has watched a clip of it off of T.V. and not one who can offer anything other than claptrap on what *I* think, I give you this:

If you want to contact the school and ask questions, I can give you an address to write to. They seem nice enough, they might even be willing to respond to you and give you their take on it.

Until then, perhaps one could crack the Bugeiryuha Daijiten and find them. (I did. Interesting.)

Until then, it's online conjecture for me and really, I'm not claiming to be an expert in anything other than the contents of my sock drawer!

-R

Well, I formed my opinion on this from the video you provided and the few magazine articles I have on this from Gekkan Hiden and Kendo jidai.

Sorry, should have stated earlier.

**Mekugi** · 03-25-2009, 08:29

Originally Posted by Gunyo Kogusoku

Well, I formed my opinion on this from the video you provided and the few magazine articles I have on this from Gekkan Hiden and Kendo jidai.

Sorry, should have stated earlier.

Upload those!

-R

**Ellis Amdur** · 03-25-2009, 08:46

Russ -
If one saw something I did in my Araki-ryu and said, "Gee, that looks like a muay thai kick. Didn't know koryu used the torso and legs that way," I could either respond to that informed eye that the ryu was secretly kicking banana trees in clandestine journeys to the southern continent, or that my teacher and I chose to alter the way we kick, after experimenting with various types of kicks, and found that most effective and congruent with the ryu. Because it worked better, we used it. Or we could maintain that it's unchanged from the late 1500's.
Similarly, all koryu's lineage and claims are suspect. Particularly one that makes a claim that is contrary to the history of the development of other ryu, and with biomechanics that exemplify a particular geographic area and a particular time in history.
And no, I do not care enough about this to contact the practitioners - I merely commented on what I saw, based on something they chose to publicly release. I have no desire to write to them saying that I doubted their history. Why? That's not research. That's interrogation, unless it was part of something larger. If members of other ryu RELATED to them, in the course of general research in Kyushu ryu, and/or Yoshin-ryu related stuff contact them, they will get a clear and useful picture which would include an explanation of the history as a matter of course.
Ellis Amdur

**Mekugi** · 03-25-2009, 10:30

Hi again!

Spring break up there? I haven't seen you on the boards a while...good to have you back.

Anyway...let's rock!

Originally Posted by Ellis Amdur

Russ -
If one saw something I did in my Araki-ryu and said, "Gee, that looks like a muay thai kick. Didn't know koryu used the torso and legs that way," I could either respond to that informed eye that the ryu was secretly kicking banana trees in clandestine journeys to the southern continent, or that my teacher and I chose to alter the way we kick, after experimenting with various types of kicks, and found that most effective and congruent with the ryu. Because it worked better, we used it. Or we could maintain that it's unchanged from the late 1500's.

Point taken.
I would ask though, if something has been unchanged since the 1500's, how would one know that it is unchanged since the 1500's without the help of Micheal J. Fox and a stainless steel Delorean? (Holy Back to the Future...I need to watch that again...)

Originally Posted by Ellis Amdur

Similarly, all koryu's lineage and claims are suspect. Particularly one that makes a claim that is contrary to the history of the development of other ryu, and with biomechanics that exemplify a particular geographic area and a particular time in history.

Absolutely. But is this what they are claiming or what they have been handed down, or just what is being emphasized to make good TV and media? (As Steve asserts; I seriously don't know). We could argue Thucydides and Herotodus on this point, methinks, lest I bring up that and Musashi was beaten by Gonnosuke to throw gas on the fire. Did it actually happen? Is it a story that is still told as a part of the ryu.....hmmm?!

So, bottom line: what facts do you have to argue otherwise?

Originally Posted by Ellis Amdur

And no, I do not care enough about this to contact the practitioners - I merely commented on what I saw, based on something they chose to publicly release. I have no desire to write to them saying that I doubted their history. Why? That's not research. That's interrogation, unless it was part of something larger. If members of other ryu RELATED to them, in the course of general research in Kyushu ryu, and/or Yoshin-ryu related stuff contact them, they will get a clear and useful picture which would include an explanation of the history as a matter of course.
Ellis Amdur

Curious (and with all due respect) what would we call what is happening here? Wouldn't it be fair to contact them and see what they say?

Anyway, while this is turning out to be a fun thread.....unfortunately I have to take the video down.

Kudos!

-Russ