Black Belt Grading Fees

[jjaje]

I'm a college dropout, and a little slow in the head. I have another question for you smart, educated folks. I decide to seek a bachelor's degree. I have to pay my tuition, books, lab fees, etc. When I graduate, do I then have to pay for my diploma on top of everything else I paid to get to that point?

Jeff Cook

Actually, I distinctly remember paying a graduation fee when I got my bachelors degree. I got my masters from a different school, and I don't recall whether there was a fee or not (but then, I didn't go to the graduation ceremony either)

[DragonMind]

There is usually a small fee to graduate to cover all the extra paperwork and processing (plus acts as a disincentive to people who file for graduation but don't actually meet the requirements). There are also incidental expenses associated with the ceremony (such as gown rental) but those are voluntary. The graduation fee at FSU is about $25.

[Aldiel]

Really? So what if the student cannot afford the testing fees? Are they then restricted from advancing because they don't have the money?


What if the student is already sacrificing just to be able to afford being able to take lessons? If I want sacrifice from a student, I expect it of his/her time dedicated to training, not by how much they can write a check for.


Oh, and their attendance and willingness to learn doesn't show their sincerity? So if they are simply unable to afford testing fees, then they remain at whatever rank they are currently at forever? Do we make martial arts and the things to be gained from training the exclusive domain of those with money? Are we creating a new "class system" and discriminating against those who are poor?

Does not sound like the proper goal of Budo/Mudo to me.

Oh come on, you can't possibly think this is really what I meant. Look, I'm right there with you. I charge a testing fee because I could not sustain myself as a martial arts instructor without it. My program run with almost free membership, and I make money on testing. It is an effective and necessary marketing tool in my college environment. I have given out many belts for free, and if you knew me, you would realize how ridiculous your accusations are. If I charged a monthly fee I could get away with giving out belts for free, but I don't so I can't. Even still, I don't see people who employ testing fees as bad martial arts instructors, or that they don't understand budo. There are a lot of paper-belt martial arts out there, I agree. My program is not one of them, nor does having a testing fee necessary make a program all about paper belts.

[Aldiel]

I wouldn't know what to do with a $100 belt. I certainly wouldn't wear it to class so it could get faded, and threadbare, and sweat and blood-stained, and stretched out of shape.

I still use the black belt that Carver sensei gave to me after my test. It gets the job done nicely, and means more to me than fancy embroidering or silk fabric.

Lol, I find it comical that you perceive my trying to purchase the nicest belt I can find for my students as a negative thing. I agree a simple black belt would suffice. A lot of styles have simple black belts with no embroidery. A lot of martial arts instructors by the cheapest black belt they can find and pocket the money too. However, neither of those things I do. In my style it is customary to have your name on one side and your school on the other. In addition, my students really like the korean embroidery, it makes them feel connected to the korean mystique. Don't get it threadbare and sweaty? That's the whole point. You need to put sweat in the belt. Having a nice, brush-cotton black belt only makes me want to soil it more. There are certain ways to make and embroider a black belt properly. I would not be satisfied with a cheap black belt for my students.

[Aldiel]

You spend almost $100 on a belt (the physical belt, not the test)??!!

So you're saying that if you let your students have a regular black belt like most people wear, then you would charge them $150 instead of $250 for the grading? You might consider giving them that option. I suspect quite a few would take it.

The fee has never been an issue, nor has a student ever decided they didn't want to test after hearing about it. I wouldn't want to make this about taking the cheap way out either.

[sean_stonehart]

I have given out many belts for free, and if you knew me, you would realize how ridiculous your accusations are.

But see, nobody here does & therefore all there is to go on is what you say.

If you say it, it must be meant otherwise you wouldn't say it. This is no media to convey implied knowledge. This has to be, especially with unknown as of yet people, explicit and unforgivenly dry & direct.

[starkjudo]

Oh come on, you can't possibly think this is really what I meant. Look, I'm right there with you. I charge a testing fee because I could not sustain myself as a martial arts instructor without it. My program run with almost free membership, and I make money on testing. It is an effective and necessary marketing tool in my college environment. I have given out many belts for free, and if you knew me, you would realize how ridiculous your accusations are. If I charged a monthly fee I could get away with giving out belts for free, but I don't so I can't. Even still, I don't see people who employ testing fees as bad martial arts instructors, or that they don't understand budo. There are a lot of paper-belt martial arts out there, I agree. My program is not one of them, nor does having a testing fee necessary make a program all about paper belts.

I think we're coming around to my biggest problem. Having gone to your website, it appears you're trying to have your cake and eat it, too. You're running a college club, by the looks of it, but you're trying to make money off of it, by your own admission above.

It's either a non-profit or it's a for-profit. Which is it? Do you pay taxes on those fees you charge? Do you pay the University for overhead expenses?

[Webmaster]

I charge a testing fee because I could not sustain myself as a martial arts instructor without it. My program run with almost free membership, and I make money on testing.

Don't you have a real job? Why is it necessary for you to make money?

All that is necessary for you to sustain yourself as a martial arts instructor is for you to be breathing and able to speak.

As far as an "almost free membership", that is not uncommon for college, YMCAs and other places that do not focus on profit as their main concern. In my case, I teach at a YMCA three times per week. Classes are $35/month for non-YMCA members and $5/month for members. Money collected goes into a youth athletic fund to provide scholarships for under-privileged youth who could not otherwise afford to participate in sports and other activities. I am not paid a dime for teaching and I still buy my students belts for them. I have a real job so I can make money. I teach martial arts so I can make Budoka.

It is an effective and necessary marketing tool in my college environment.

Considering how college students are usually broke, I cannot see how nickle and diming them with assorted fees and costs can be an effective marking tool. Could you explain further?

I have given out many belts for free, and if you knew me, you would realize how ridiculous your accusations are.

What accusations?

If I charged a monthly fee I could get away with giving out belts for free, but I don't so I can't.

I do it, why can't you again?

Even still, I don't see people who employ testing fees as bad martial arts instructors, or that they don't understand budo. There are a lot of paper-belt martial arts out there, I agree. My program is not one of them, nor does having a testing fee necessary make a program all about paper belts.

I don't think that people who use testing fees are bad instructors either, but I do think that many have their priorities bass-ackwards. Teaching a martial art is about the student first and foremost. It is the student that sustains a martial arts program, Ryuha, Kwon, organization, class or whatever, and perpetuates it for future generations. When we lose sight of that and focus on the financial rewards, then we are not doing our duty as instructors.

As far as having an embroidered belt or a bare one... I think you are missing the point of Dave's post. The value of a black belt is not based on what you wrap around your waist, it is from the time, effort, sweat and blood you put into earning it.

[David Craik]

I have a real job so I can make money. I teach martial arts so I can make Budoka.

That's a great quote, I shall have to remember it.

[nismophreek]

I think that quote should be the defining attribute of ALL martial arts instructors.

[TonyU]

That's a great quote, I shall have to remember it.

So much so, I put it in my sig line.

[Webmaster]

Aw shucks guys... and to think I didn't even steal that quote from anyone.

[Prince Loeffler]

I have a real job so I can make money. I teach martial arts so I can make Budoka.

When did the GOD of BUDO visited earth and dilvered us the holy sacred words ??

[sean_stonehart]

When did the GOD of BUDO visited earth and dilvered us the holy sacred words ??

Earlier today... roughly 1857 hrs

[Prince Loeffler]

Earlier today... roughly 1857 hrs

Darn it ! I was at the bathroom carpet bombing the Danube River..

[Webmaster]

When did the GOD of BUDO visited earth and dilvered us the holy sacred words ??

You rang?

[Prince Loeffler]

You rang?

I am not worthy ! I am not worthy !!

[rgoad]

Don't feel bad. You can express (no pun intended) your rephrase your interpretation of it:

Darn it ! I was at the bathroom carpet bombing the Danube River..

Thusly:

"I have a job so I can buy food. I eat so I can make boopo-Kaka."

[DragonMind]

In my style it is customary to have your name on one side and your school on the other. In addition, my students really like the korean embroidery, it makes them feel connected to the korean mystique. Don't get it threadbare and sweaty? That's the whole point. You need to put sweat in the belt. Having a nice, brush-cotton black belt only makes me want to soil it more. There are certain ways to make and embroider a black belt properly. I would not be satisfied with a cheap black belt for my students.

Actually MA style has nothing to do with it; Gen. Choi never wore any such nonsense. You're caught up in ego and status and that comes from your teacher. A fancy belt is like strutting around in a fancy car sporting a fancy watch and the latest gizmo cell phone. You are violating the very essence of Budo but you don't seem to get it. Granted that you are young and stupid, but if you listen to the folks here - most of whom have black belts older than you are - you might achieve age with a bit of wisdom. You are not doing your students any kind of favor parading these ego-puffing belts as the reward when the real reward you should be promoting is the self discipline, health and sense of accomplishment from undergoing hard training. That is the true gift of a MA instructor, not some pimped cloth any jacka$$ can buy on the Internet.

[sean_stonehart]

Actually MA style has nothing to do with it; Gen. Choi never wore any such nonsense. You're caught up in ego and status and that comes from your teacher. A fancy belt is like strutting around in a fancy car sporting a fancy watch and the latest gizmo cell phone. You are violating the very essence of Budo but you don't seem to get it. Granted that you are young and stupid, but if you listen to the folks here - most of whom have black belts older than you are - you might achieve age with a bit of wisdom. You are not doing your students any kind of favor parading these ego-puffing belts as the reward when the real reward you should be promoting is the self discipline, health and sense of accomplishment from undergoing hard training. That is the true gift of a MA instructor, not some pimped cloth any jacka$$ can buy on the Internet.

Word... truth has been laid out plain to see...