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  1. #1
    Super Moderator
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    Default Best expandable baton?

    Any thoughts on who makes the best expandable baton? I'd like to get one and while the only product I have any experience with is ASP, I know there are others out there.

    So, what do we think?
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    Sorry Jason; I only have experience with the ASP 16". It closes down to about six inches, which makes it suitable as a kubotan/yawara. It is easily concealable too, due to its collapsed size.

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    Jason, just be aware that the expandable batons may or may not be legal in your area. Around here, they can only be sold to LEOs. So be sure to check your local laws.
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  4. #4
    Super Moderator Cliff Hargrave's Avatar
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    In Texas you can own them, but you can't possess them in public unless traveling to and from an event that uses them (like a martial arts class). It's a catch-all law that refers to any type of "club." It's easier to carry a gun.

    I have seen the longest ASP bend from hitting a person. I carried the medium length one for years and it never bent, but I have never been very impressed with it. There are really only three companies to choose from, ASP, Casco, and Monadnock. One of my friends used to carry a Casco and I remember it being a thicker metal than ASP. It's been a while though. Try to find a Cop store around there and see of you can hold them.
    Jiu-Jitsu - like chess, except you get to choke people.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Brian R. VanCise's Avatar
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    Yes definitely look into your local law to see if you can even carry it.
    I have some experience with Monadnock and quite a bit with ASP. Personally I like the ASP better.

  6. #6
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    I Have already looked into the local laws and yes it is easier to carry a gun than a baton but it can be done depending on the circumstances.

    Thanks,
    For now, more than ever before, being sincere and dedicated is not enough. We must also be right. - Walter Kroll. 1971

  7. #7
    Moderator Emeritus David Craik's Avatar
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    I've talked to a few cops that have used expandable batons and I got the distinct impression they weren't too enthused with them. One dropped the thing in frustration after belaboring an intoxicated subject to no effect and simply punched out the guy with his fist.

    I actually like the sprung ones myself..more a blackjack than a baton. With a fairly sharp-edged weight at the end you can tear hunks of flesh clean off with every blow.

  8. #8
    Super Moderator Cliff Hargrave's Avatar
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    Here is the problem with them. They were copied from the Japanese baton, which works. We got them over here and tried to use them with our standard baton procedures that targeted large muscle groups. This was great with a hickory baton or a PR-24. The expandable metal baton just didn't have enough mass and weight to make a good strike. The Japanese police batons were used differently. They don't seem to have a problem with hitting someone in the head or neck with it, which is a big no-no here. So for our more "humane" baton use, they just don't perform well.

    Using it as an FMA weapon, which is what I am sure Jason intends, it should work fine.
    Jiu-Jitsu - like chess, except you get to choke people.

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    My plan is to use it in solo baston fashion or even baston y daga fashion should the necessity arise. Thanks Cliff for that statement. I was looking at a Baton training manual online the other day and I noticed the large muscle group targeting and was curious about it but I didn't take it to the next step and make that connection. Good stuff, I knew I could count on you guys!
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  10. #10
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    Good insight Cliff, thanks.

  11. #11
    Moderator Erik's Avatar
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    One more thing - at least in CA the non-spring-loaded ones are legal but the spring loaded ones are not.

    The non-spring-loaded ones close by banging the butt against something hard (like the ground) and open by flicking.

    They looked painful and hurt my hand when I was playing with it but, per Cliff's post, against someone who is not being sensible (like a training buddy) I cannot see them being that useful unless you're thumping something hard like a skull, face, elbow, or back of the hand.

    If you discover otherwise, please explain to me, I'd like to know. Perhaps my imagination was failing me.
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  12. #12
    Super Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    ) I cannot see them being that useful unless you're thumping something hard like a skull, face, elbow, or back of the hand.
    Those sound pretty close to the places I would be thinking about hitting should I ever be unfortunate enough to have to use the darn thing though I would also add the clavicle, the knee, and the ankle.

    I hope to hell I never have to actually do it but if I do, that is what we train for... As a matter of fact, in my Kali class tonight we trained baston y daga for about 30 minutes and that is exactly what I was thinking about.

    This is what I am looking at right now but I am definitely going to check them out in person first. I have used the ASP in the past while training so I am somewhat familiar with their product. I use 26 inch sticks while training so that would likely be the size I would go with. http://www.batons.com/autolock.html
    Last edited by jwinch2; 12-07-2009 at 21:53.
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  13. #13
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    Default

    I've had 2 cheapy $20 26" collapsible batons, and so far both of them bent during testing, taking only a hard one handed hit or two to bend at the last joint. I thought it was just because I was going with a no name baton, but from reading this thread, even ASP batons will bend. You would think that it would be possible to make it unbendable by human means at the thicknesses and materials that they are making these, but apparently not.
    So has anybody put name brand batons to a head to head test against each other to see which ones are the strongest at the longer lengths?

  14. #14
    Moderator DragonMind's Avatar
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    FCS teaches tactical baton from the FMA perspective and the first thing they tell you is it is NOT an impact weapon as Cliff so rightly points out. It is great for joint manipulation and chokes but not much else.

    I've used ASP, Monadnock and el-cheapo. ASP is the only way to go IMHO.
    Barry McConnell

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  15. #15
    Super Moderator
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    Thanks Barry!
    For now, more than ever before, being sincere and dedicated is not enough. We must also be right. - Walter Kroll. 1971

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