Kettlebell?

[De_Franza]

Kettlebell... all that?

I've seen several of y'all recommend the kettlebell, and recently it's been all over TV infomercials (it's apparently, hip) but it got me thinking about it again.

I saw a 10 pounder at Wal-mart for about 19 bucks and figured from the infomercial, some google-fu, and you guys I can put together a useful routine without buying the gimmicky (or perhaps, in all fairness, awesome) DVD workout for like, $50 that I don't have.

frankly, it looks like fun and a new (to me) way to work out.

So...
A) The kettlebell... in general, good?
2) a few excercizes from you guys / good web resourcs for it a good place to start?
2a) thoughts, suggestions... try the motions with a regular dumbell or milk jug?

THANKS IN ADVANCE!

[jwinch2]

Kettlebell... all that?

I've seen several of y'all recommend the kettlebell, and recently it's been all over TV infomercials (it's apparently, hip) but it got me thinking about it again.

I saw a 10 pounder at Wal-mart for about 19 bucks and figured from the infomercial, some google-fu, and you guys I can put together a useful routine without buying the gimmicky (or perhaps, in all fairness, awesome) DVD workout for like, $50 that I don't have.

frankly, it looks like fun and a new (to me) way to work out.

So...
A) The kettlebell... in general, good?
2) a few excercizes from you guys / good web resourcs for it a good place to start?
2a) thoughts, suggestions... try the motions with a regular dumbell or milk jug?

THANKS IN ADVANCE!

Kettlebells are good for one thing and one thing only. They are meant to be thrown. End of story. The rest is complete and utter hogwash. There is absolutely no advantage to the changing center of mass and in fact, it is more of a hindrance than anything else. Buy yourself a good set of dumbbells and save the money.

This should not be taken to mean that I do not like them at all because I do. I have used them and I recommend them for my athletes depending on the situation. The problem comes in when people try to make them the end all be all which they are most certainly not. Trying to use them to perform the Olympic lifts or to replace dumbbells is a waste of time.

To bring it back to where I started, Kettlebells are meant to be thrown. The advantage of having an implement that you can throw is that you do not have the intentional decrease in velocity that you have when you have to hold on to the implement during maximal velocity movements. Kettlebells were designed to be big hunks of metal with handles on them so that they could be tossed around without fear of breaking them. If you did, you just welded the handle back on and continued as before. That's it.


http://www.nsca.com/HotTopic/download/BARBELLS.pdf

[David Craik]

Thanks Jason, I didn't know that. The gym on base just got a whole bunch of kettlebells and I recalled people raving about them for years. Looking at the posted exercise chart, I could not see too much added benefit over using plain old dumbbells though - apart from maybe increasing core strength trying to stabilize a kind of awkward load (?).

I just stuck with the dumbells, since I'd never used kettlebells before I didn't want to look any stupider than normal in a crowded gym.

[jwinch2]

Thanks Jason, I didn't know that. The gym on base just got a whole bunch of kettlebells and I recalled people raving about them for years. Looking at the posted exercise chart, I could not see too much added benefit over using plain old dumbbells though - apart from maybe increasing core strength trying to stabilize a kind of awkward load (?).

Not really Dave. When you lift any implement, you are using the musculature of the trunk as that object is moving around your center of mass in some fashion. Whether or not the object has a variable center of mass is not relevant. As for the rest, you are welcome...

A study presented at a conference I was at a few years ago demonstrated a decrease in power production as compared to DB's when performing Olympic style lifting movements. I am trying to find that study but I don't think it ever came into print and the data was only presented at conference. In addition, an additional study demonstrated that KB's can be used as a method of enhancing certain characteristics of strength. Unfortunately, this study did not compare the use of KB's with other forms of training. In addition, no improvements were noted in skills which are directly related to real world activities such as vertical jump or power. The lack of improvement in power is startling considering that the researchers had their participants performing Olympic style weightlifting movements with KB's rather than with a BB.

This research is far from conclusive but so far, it supports earlier thoughts on the subject that the changing center of mass will actually limit the achievement of peak velocity, which is a crucial component of power. In addition, there is an important point which needs to be made on the use of loading in Olympic style movements for achievement of peak power. The author of the link I supplied above suggests that one is not able to achieve enough loading when using KB's to lead to the same types of adaptations that you can get from BB's. This is an important factor. I have published two papers demonstrating that optimal power production in Olympic lifts is achieved at around 70% of one repetition maximum. These loads are not achievable through the use of KB's. That, as much as the fluctuating center of mass is probably a good explanation of why KB training does not demonstrate the same types of improvements in power, to date, as training the same movements with a barbell.

Again as I mentioned, I do like kettlebells but they are best used in certain situations and with specific goals in mind. I feel the same way about dumbbells and barbells. There are people who feel that the same adaptations can be made via dumbbells as when using barbells and vice versa. Those people are wrong. We have multiple training tools for a reason. In some situations one tool is more effective than another might be. The key is in knowing when to use which tool and not trying to over-generalize. No implement is good for all types of training and most of the time we are going to be talking about very specialized conditions and goals and the training stimulus needs to be choses to match those variables.

[jjaje]

True story. I was in Dunhams (a local sporting goods store) because they actually have ammunition in stock and have not jacked up the prices. I'm in line to pay, and the cute girl in front of me has a 5 pound kettlebell.

It's then you think to yourself, "The marketing worked, they successfully entered mainstream America. It is all over now, when they make a pink plastic covered 5 lb kettlebell, now people will move on to the next thing."

I have several kettlebells. I got one, and went to a seminar, thought it was pretty cool. It worked out that right around my birthday each year, I'd be ready for a bigger one, and that's what my wife would get me.

Personally I like them, but most kettlebell exercises can be done with dumbbells also. However, having done the specific exercises with both, I admit I prefer the kettlebell, which means it's more likely I'll actually do the whole workout, or an extra set or whatever. I do throw them in the back yard, which is fun, except for the dents they leave in the lawn.

There is a whole endurance sport specifically for kettlebell lifters, and they don't throw them there. So their whole use has not historically been limited to throwing. Not sure whether one exercise was made to supplement the other though.

Unless you are pretty weak, I wouldn't start with anything smaller than 30-35 pounds (assuming the "standard" kettlebell style exercises). I have a couple of the DVD's, I'd be happy to loan them to you, let me know.

[TonyU]

I can see the kettlebell being used as a version of Ishi-Ashi. Of course the lighter ones.

For comparison;


Some exercises;

[Jay Bell]

There's several things that I use kettlebells for...but the majority of loading we do is swings, getups, snatches and goblet squats.

Sadly...there *is* a great deal of hype that comes along with them. Jillian Michaels and her nonsense had a short segment one night on Biggest Loser that showed her doing KB swings...and it was pathetic. It was grossly obvious she had no idea what she was doing or what the point was. Load across her toes and turning into a lazy little shoulder lift.

But, it goes back to any type of lift. Have someone go to Play-It-Again Sports and buy an olympic bar and have them attempt to learn snatches and cleans on their own. Not the best idea in the world.

I've seen a lot of injuries from KB's over the years...especially in regards to swings (done wrong) and the low back. Swings are a posterior chain movement...and when done incorrectly, it loads a cross chain through the body, putting the strain on the low back and working the quads instead. I've also seen shoulder injuries from snatches where someone "did what the video/book showed"...not realizing it's a hip thrust movement and not a shoulder jerk.

Girevoy sport (kettlebell sport) is based on energy conservation...and it's a very different take on kb's then what you'll find in most "hard style" groups.

Going back to Jason's comment about throwing.. I use them for weight-for-height and Braemar prep for Highland Games throwing.

Kettlebells are good for one thing and one thing only. They are meant to be thrown. End of story.

No, it's not the end of story. What would be more correct is you don't use them for anything but throwing.

[jwinch2]

No, it's not the end of story.

That is their purpose and the only thing that they can be used for that are more effective than another implement.

[Webmaster]

I can see the kettlebell being used as a version of Ishi-Ashi. Of course the lighter ones.

Ishi-ashi are great fun. They really hurt then dropped on your foot (yes, I have done this).

[Cliff Hargrave]

Digging way back in the memory banks here.....

I remember my karate school having some weights that looked like half spheres with handles similar to kettle bells. We used to hold them while doing kata or basics.

I tried to draw a picture in paint...

Anyone recognize them?

[Jay Bell]

That is their purpose and the only thing that they can be used for that are more effective than another implement.

No, it isn't their purpose. It is *a* purpose. Strongmen were using them for grinding in the US back in the 1800s. Grinds, ballistic strength, posterior chain strengthening, cardio conditioning...all yes, much in the same way they're used today.

[TonyU]

Digging way back in the memory banks here.....

I remember my karate school having some weights that looked like half spheres with handles similar to kettle bells. We used to hold them while doing kata or basics.

I tried to draw a picture in paint...

Anyone recognize them?

Probably a custom or home made version of Ishi-ashi.

[Prince Loeffler]

Digging way back in the memory banks here.....

I remember my karate school having some weights that looked like half spheres with handles similar to kettle bells. We used to hold them while doing kata or basics.

I tried to draw a picture in paint...

Anyone recognize them?

A smiling bearded invisible man ?

[jwinch2]

No, it isn't their purpose. It is *a* purpose. Strongmen were using them for grinding in the US back in the 1800s. Grinds, ballistic strength, posterior chain strengthening, cardio conditioning...all yes, much in the same way they're used today.

And they were inferior at it then just as they are now. The only thing that you can do with KB's in which they are more effective than other implements is to throw them.

[Cliff Hargrave]

Probably a custom or home made version of Ishi-ashi.

These were commercial made. The round part was about the size of half of a grapefruit, and they were metal and painted blue.

[Brian R. VanCise]

I like kettle-bells and enjoy lifting them more than I do dumbbells. Since finding them they have reinvigorated my weight lifting. However other than the enjoyment I am with Jason that they are no better than dumbbells. Still they have reinvigorated my love to lift weights so that is a plus!

[Deibe]

an excellent product for work force and the stabilizing muscles. Well-trained is a great discovery for martial arts!!