Wing Chun help

[Vagabond]

I have been interested in Wing Chun for quite some time. I have never had the opportunity to practice it, mostly due to its lack of availibility in my area. When it is availible, there are always scheduling conflicts.

I was hoping some practicioners could give me a well rounded idea of what Wing Chun is, so that I could prepare myself for the one day I will actually get to practice it. Also any suggested literature on the topic would be awesome too. I am not looking for a Dojo in a book/DVD, just some advice and ideas on this beautiful and effective art.

[sooner_sadiq]

Wing Chun is predominately a close quarter combat system, that focuses on striking, trapping and angles. Most famously known for emphasizing center line theory (almost all systems do) it has other equally important principles and concepts attached to it.

There are 3 empty hand forms, a wooden dummy form, and two weapons forms (pole, butterfly knives).

They are very big on sensitivitivity/sensory training. This is usually done through a method "sparring" called chi sao.

The system has far more depth to it than that but hopefully that will help you out some.

[Vagabond]

I have heard a lot about the centerline, and I assume it is in the the cener of your body. All punches are thrown from here, and it is the primary area to proctect yeah?

I am curious about the wooden dummy. I have an idea about its use, but I would like to hear before I open my mouth. What is the use of it, how much is it used, and how long does it take to learn the basics?

[sooner_sadiq]

Centerline is the center/core of your body. Although WC practicioners are known for the chain punch, not all strikes originate from the center. Linear strikes get the most focus but circular strikes are there as well. Covering/protecting the centerline is paramount.

As far as the wooden dummy, it is a training tool just like a heavy bag/makiwara or anything else. It covers entries, angles, striking, trapping, etc etc.

WC is designed to get the basics rapidly. Your training style, dedication, and apptitude determines how fast you can pick up the basics - but generally about a year - year and a half

[Vagabond]

Sounds like it would be a good style to learn and assimilate. I see the dummy as also having a hardening effect on the forearms and building up blocking/striking strength more than a heavy bag would.

Does Wing Chun use a belt/sash system?

[sean_stonehart]

Sounds like it would be a good style to learn and assimilate. I see the dummy as also having a hardening effect on the forearms and building up blocking/striking strength more than a heavy bag would.

Does Wing Chun use a belt/sash system?

Heavy bags are better for building punching strength than dummies. The dummy will harden/densify bone & help to desensitize some nerves in thin skinbone areas (shins/wrists). But if you want to harden the arms & hands & still be able to use them... sandbags/heavy bags.

No CMA system has a "ranking" system. CMA's traditionally have used a "family tree" since that's how it was viewed & still is by some. However, most have adopted one to be able to compete with the JMA/OMA/KMA styles that do. In broad, non-specific general terms, most people don't have the where-with-all to train simply for the training. Most people need to see that "carrot" to shoot for. The only time I got "promoted" was last summer on a phone call with my teacher and he simply said "Oh yeah, you need to start calling yourself sifu". It was almost like a passing thought. That's the way it's meant to be with CMAs. You're a student until your teacher tells you different. You train to learn the system, inside & out and then maybe pass it on if you've a mind to.

[TonyU]

The only time I got "promoted" was last summer on a phone call with my teacher and he simply said "Oh yeah, you need to start calling yourself sifu". It was almost like a passing thought. That's the way it's meant to be with CMAs. You're a student until your teacher tells you different. You train to learn the system, inside & out and then maybe pass it on if you've a mind to.

That is so cool.

[Jonathan Randall]

That is so cool.

X 2.


Also, to the original poster, many modern Wing Chun schools - particularly of the "modified" sort - do have ranking systems composed of sashes, coloured shirts, etc. This is not traditional but it is common. Still, there does seem to be an inverse relationship between focus on rank and school excellence.

[Vagabond]

I like that. I do not need a carrot, but if I wish to fulfill my goals in this country, I must be legitimate, and unfortunately that means going through the ranks. I truly enjoy the no title master thing.

[sean_stonehart]

I like that. I do not need a carrot, but if I wish to fulfill my goals in this country, I must be legitimate, and unfortunately that means going through the ranks. I truly enjoy the no title master thing.

Legit... whatta conundrum.

Word of advice about the CMA road. Legit is measured by touch & feel, not colors. Honestly... that would measure for most serious MA practitioners. Ask'em... if they talk about knowing all these people & all this & all that... that's great. But if they can explain why a punch is a punch & punch isn't a punch in the same sentence... you might want to follow up with them. If they can show you... you might want to hang around. If they can make you understand it... you should ask them if they're accepting students.

I've met people teaching in the back of restaurants that are literally & figuratively untouchable. I've met people teaching with a wall of pictures & autographs & trophies that can't punch themselves out of a wet paper bag with the top open. This goes both for here in the US & on a visit to China.

If you're serious about it... I would shop quality & bugger the rest. What ever they have to teach you would be more than sufficient.

[TonyU]

I like that. I do not need a carrot, but if I wish to fulfill my goals in this country, I must be legitimate, and unfortunately that means going through the ranks. I truly enjoy the no title master thing.

I really don't understand what you mean. How does you being legitimate fulfill your goals in this country? Also how many arts are you planning on learning at one time?

[Jonathan Randall]

Legit... whatta conundrum.

Word of advice about the CMA road. Legit is measured by touch & feel, not colors. Honestly... that would measure for most serious MA practitioners. Ask'em... if they talk about knowing all these people & all this & all that... that's great. But if they can explain why a punch is a punch & punch isn't a punch in the same sentence... you might want to follow up with them. If they can show you... you might want to hang around. If they can make you understand it... you should ask them if they're accepting students.

I've met people teaching in the back of restaurants that are literally & figuratively untouchable. I've met people teaching with a wall of pictures & autographs & trophies that can't punch themselves out of a wet paper bag with the top open. This goes both for here in the US & on a visit to China.

If you're serious about it... I would shop quality & bugger the rest. What ever they have to teach you would be more than sufficient.

Very, very good advice. Vagabond, this is the advice you want to follow.

Like you, Sean, I've met both types. Several of the photos everywhere and the high ranks wrapped around their ample waists type and one of the back of restaurant types (bakery, actually).

[Mighty Mouse]

Very, very good advice. Vagabond, this is the advice you want to follow.

Like you, Sean, I've met both types. Several of the photos everywhere and the high ranks wrapped around their ample waists type and one of the back of restaurant types (bakery, actually).

I didn't study in the back of a bakery but I think I came close with that type of Sensei/Sifu. Mine was my High school German/Anthropolgy teacher who taught a hand full of students at his home. The instruction was pretty deep. An example was how he broke down just a plain front snap kick. He started with a 5 count, as you got better you got it down to a one count. Next you worked on accuracy. When he was satisfied with that, you picked up on speed. Contrasted to some larger dojos/dojangs I have been to where half the class was off on form and the other half on speed and belt color wasn't even a factor. He also used some tactics in teaching that were rather tough....I don't want to even get into how he taught us to Kiya.

[Rasputin]

I have always liked Wing Chun. I can imagine crosstraining in it to complement my jujutsu quite easily. Maybe some day.

[Jonathan Randall]

I didn't study in the back of a bakery but I think I came close with that type of Sensei/Sifu. Mine was my High school German/Anthropolgy teacher who taught a hand full of students at his home. The instruction was pretty deep. An example was how he broke down just a plain front snap kick. He started with a 5 count, as you got better you got it down to a one count. Next you worked on accuracy. When he was satisfied with that, you picked up on speed. Contrasted to some larger dojos/dojangs I have been to where half the class was off on form and the other half on speed and belt color wasn't even a factor. He also used some tactics in teaching that were rather tough....I don't want to even get into how he taught us to Kiya.

Sounds good to me.

So many younger folks who started martial arts after the 1970's do not really understand how strict, harsh even, the average instruction used to be. I see by prior threads and your listed age that you probably remember the old days.

[Mighty Mouse]

Sounds good to me.

So many younger folks who started martial arts after the 1970's do not really understand how strict, harsh even, the average instruction used to be. I see by prior threads and your listed age that you probably remember the old days.

I got into it in the early '70's just prior to the "Bruce Lee wave". I can remember my MDK class that I took at the University's gym filling up at the first of each semester and thinning down to about 20% in a week. LOL
You are VERY correct on the instructors. Back then most of them taught on the side and didn't make a living at it as they had a Full-time job elsewhere. Atrition[sp] was almost a welcome thing to reduce the class work load, and attention was all the better for it. I have to say though most of the instructors I had were as fair as they were harsh and strict.

[Vagabond]

Legit... whatta conundrum.

Word of advice about the CMA road. Legit is measured by touch & feel, not colors. Honestly... that would measure for most serious MA practitioners.

I agree, but I mean for my JMA. I would study any CMA just to learn it, and I have befor. Unfortunately though people want (hopefully) quality and rank, but I search for them in that order Quality first.

That is a great point though, a lot of people get caught up in the tournaments and pop culture of Martial Arts. They can do but they can't explain why and understand why, which often makes them poor teachers.

[Vagabond]

So many younger folks who started martial arts after the 1970's do not really understand how strict, harsh even, the average instruction used to be. I see by prior threads and your listed age that you probably remember the old days.

I would like that, I truly would. Martial arts is not suppose to be easy, and it is not for everyone emotionally/maturity wise. Do you think it would be able to be taught that way in the future? Regardless of the golden days or anything it should be fixed.

I would love to go onto this, but I think that would be another thread. Who wants to start it?

[sean_stonehart]

I agree, but I mean for my JMA. I would study any CMA just to learn it, and I have befor. Unfortunately though people want (hopefully) quality and rank, but I search for them in that order Quality first.

Not to be nit picky, but your questions above don't really show that. How long to learn basics? Do they use belts?

Basics are the foundation of ALL MAs & CMAs stress that. There's nothing advanced in CMAs. There's only varying degrees of skill with basics performed.

That is a great point though, a lot of people get caught up in the tournaments and pop culture of Martial Arts. They can do but they can't explain why and understand why, which often makes them poor teachers.

Well ... more underlying... they can't do, but have the trappings of media, inflated "rank", good ol boy networks, politics, etc...that says they should be able to, more than real skill.

[Vagabond]

TonyU
I do not know how many martial arts I want to study, but if you want to teach Karate, you have to have a Dan rank in the JKA. It is not my main goal, merely an occasional side track I have to go through on the path of training. I love Martial Arts, and I would like to pass them on to other people. I just want to make sure I do it correctly, and am passing on the right stuff.
Sean Stonehart
I was merely asking inquisitive information with regards to the belts. I was told that CMA's use sashes, and they don't use anything, I just wanted to know. As for the basics, again I was just curious about how expansive the system is and/or how intense the training can be. I know it varies from Sifu to Sifu.

Like I said I am just looking to gather some information on the art from people who have experienced it or know something about it. I am not trying to find out how long until I can become a Sifu, or say I know it, or anything like that. I like the philosophy of walk softly and carry a big stick... or in our case a mean roundhouse/punch. I have had little experience with CMA's, so I am just trying to gather some information about this specific one that has peaked my interest.