Arizona's New Immigration Law

[kbarrett]

As you all may hve read or will hear about before this day is over, the Govenor of Arizona just signed into law the new immigration law, some like ours president say it violates peoples civil rights, (it's odd how he say's that after passing the health care bill, basiclly tell people that they have to buy health insurance or else).

How do you feel about this new immigration bill being passed in Arizona, is it the right thing to do, and what will be the fall out from the passing this bill. Is immigration the next big thing coming from the white house and if so what impact will it have on the whole country?

Sincerely
Ken Barrett

[Abbax8]

We do not need immigration reform. We need to control our borders. We need to enforce the laws about hiring illegal aliens.

Dennis

[Haggis Kicker]

Recently coming form AZ, I am glad they are getting down to business protecting the citizens there. PHX has the highest rate of kidnapping in the country. This is primarily due to the horrendous toll the drug war is taking on that region of the country.

[Dennis Monk]

I love how the media portrays this as "criminizing illegal immigrants".
So it wasn't always a crime to be an illegal immigrant huh?

[David Craik]

I agree with everything that's been said. If somebody wants to live here, they can go through the same red tape I did, and my family did, to do so legally. If not, and they are unhappy with their country, then they should work to change it.

[Jay Bell]

There is one key component that no one, including Bill Maher and Fox News both, seem to have noticed about this bill. Everytime I've heard, watched or listened to someone speak about it, they've gotten it wrong.

If you are pulled over for speeding...and the officer finds that you have a suspended license, then not only are you cited for the speeding, but dealt with on the driving on a suspended license as well. Same idea. I have yet to hear anyone on either side even come close to getting it right while explaining the bill...and frankly getting tired of it.

Droves of teenagers ditched school for 2 days this week to march on the Capital. Picketers, angry as could be, stood in front of news cameras chanting that it's what the Nazi's did...that it's a race issue...that Arizona hates Mexicans...it's beyond stupidity. I begged for someone to grab the microphone and ask if anyone's actually read it. We even had many groups of officers fighting against it, saying that it would take away from fighting rapes and murders elsewhere. The media should be ashamed.

I haven't heard from the horse's mouth that President Obama said it was a civil rights issue. Can you find me a quote on that?

FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).

I agree with all of the above. It's amazing that thousands of people turned out to picket against law enforcement enforcing the law.

[Jeff C.]

I completely agree with everyone here, and everything you all have written in this thread. Kudos to the AZ governor for having a spine and taking action!!!

With that said, I would like to reinforce what Dennis wrote above. The key is to crack down on employers, BUT to also have a system in place to legalize the folks who are already here and not just toss them back over the fence. I suspect the numbers who will stand in that line will be quite low, if they cannot get and hold a job in this country.

Crack down on the employers, and you will see a mass exodus heading south.

Jeff Cook

[Webmaster]

Jay, since you live in Arizona, and have read the law, could you answer a question?

The paragraph you state refers to "lawful contact", so does the law specify what a "lawful contact" is? The reason I ask is to understand if the charges by the left that police would be just randomly pulling individuals over and checking their "papers" is accurate. As I read the paragraph, it seems to me that only times in which contact was made with a citizen, like traffic stops, investigations, etc, and an officer suspects the individual to be not a US citizen could they check to verify citizenship, and not that officers are actively looking for individuals who might not be citizens. However, a definition of "lawful contact" I think would be key to dispelling a lot of the BS over this new law.

If you want a real kick, read the below letter from the Episcopal Church in Arizona. Real shame that they can't grasp the concept of simply enforcing existing laws.

[Don Roley]

I find it strange the the president is saying that this should be dealt with by means of immigration reform and not local laws.

The fact is, people do not want to hire hispanic workers, they want to hire illegal workers.

Has anyone seen just how much an employer has to pay to hire someone at even minimum wage? Between social security, payroll taxes, benefits, unemployment insurance, and a host of other costs the amount workers take home is nowhere near the money the business has to budget for them.

And this president wants to add even more costs on top of what employers pay now.

So if all those workers who are doing jobs so simple that they don't even need English skills were to be made legal, they price themselves out of a job and we get a new crop of guys from across the border.

I actually sympathize with the workers who come here to make their life better. If I were in their place I might do the same thing. But they end up costing society more than they produce. If they get sick, they don't have health insurance and now we will have to cover them anyway if they get really sick. If one business hires an illegal alien, not paying for any sort of health insurance and sending them to the emergency room if they have even minor problems then they can undercut the prices of a business that pays all the taxes on their workers. One business uses the emergency room, the other helps pay for it through taxes.

The business owners are in a bind. Break the law or be eaten by businesses that break the law.

The more benefits we allow illegal aliens to have that are paid for by taxes, the worse the trouble gets.

So excuse me if I can barely restrain my laughter when I see the president imply he can fix things better than Arizona. He is a very large part of the problem.

[Abbax8]

In Pennsylvania we have a mandatory seat belt law. All passengers regardless of age must wear one. However the police cannot pull you over for not wearing your seat belt. If they pull you over for speeding or running a red light and then find you not wearing your belt, you will get a second ticket.

The Arizona law sounds very similar, you can't be cited unless you are guilty of something else.

On a different note, it's time that our neighbors to the south do something to make their countries more livable for their citizens and if we are sending foreign aid their way we should stop sending it until that country gets its act together. I know, simplistic idea, but I'm tired of pumping money into countries that cause us trouble.

Dennis

[Jay Bell]

Jay, since you live in Arizona, and have read the law, could you answer a question?

The paragraph you state refers to "lawful contact", so does the law specify what a "lawful contact" is? The reason I ask is to understand if the charges by the left that police would be just randomly pulling individuals over and checking their "papers" is accurate. As I read the paragraph, it seems to me that only times in which contact was made with a citizen, like traffic stops, investigations, etc, and an officer suspects the individual to be not a US citizen could they check to verify citizenship, and not that officers are actively looking for individuals who might not be citizens. However, a definition of "lawful contact" I think would be key to dispelling a lot of the BS over this new law.

If you want a real kick, read the below letter from the Episcopal Church in Arizona. Real shame that they can't grasp the concept of simply enforcing existing laws.

The law itself is vague...it was written from the perspective of law enforcement and not the general pop...so there's a strong lacking of understanding. Lawful contact means that law enforcement cannot approach someone asking for legal papers unless there is a legal reason beforehand for that contact to occur. So, during a traffic stop, it's possible to inquire someone's citizenship. Approaching someone with an accent and asking for proof of citizenship or a work visa is not lawful contact.

I agree with you, Robert. It needs to be clearly defined so that all of this nonsense stops.

Don,

Not to derail the topic...but former Governor Napolitano ran our state's economy into the ground. We're broke, public care systems are going away and education is taking the worst hit this state has ever seen. She, consecutively, would spend upwards of 16% over state budget each fiscal year. I had the chance to sit down and speak with the AZ State Treasurer and he spent the entire time in her administration attempting to cover checks that she wouldn't stop writing.

Now? She was made the head of Homeland Security by President Obama. At a press conference talking about illegal immigrants crossing the border, it was suggested that a 10 foot high wall be built on the border. Napolitano's reply, chuckling aloud at her "wit", was that then we'd see illegal immigrants carrying around 11 foot ladders. The State Treasurer replied, "Well, Governor, wouldn't they be easier to see then?"

Her reply was to leave the stage, go up to her office and lock the door. She's a real piece of work.. She couldn't handle illegal immigration at a *state* level...and now it's part of her job to handle it at a national one. Maybe wrongly so, but I blame most of the failures that we currently face in Arizona on her. We're taking a beating now picking up the pieces that she left behind.

[Don Roley]

Thank you Jay for your insight. I for one suspect that if I get drawn into a debate over the law I can point out what you did and leave those dealing with knee jerk reactions rather than full facts floundering like fish out of water.

[Jonathan Randall]

As you all may hve read or will hear about before this day is over, the Govenor of Arizona just signed into law the new immigration law, some like ours president say it violates peoples civil rights, (it's odd how he say's that after passing the health care bill, basiclly tell people that they have to buy health insurance or else).

How do you feel about this new immigration bill being passed in Arizona, is it the right thing to do, and what will be the fall out from the passing this bill. Is immigration the next big thing coming from the white house and if so what impact will it have on the whole country?

Sincerely
Ken Barrett

I'm for a vigorous defence of our borders and this law has a place in that.

It is getting very important as it becomes more and more obvious that Mexico is a failed state with many of its regions and cities in a narco-war, corruption, kidnapping free for all that the government needs to fulfill its first and most basic responsibilities - defence of our borders.

[TonyU]

Thank you Jay for really pointing out the law as it reads. Since this thread I've been watching the news. The media and opponents have been spreading so much misinformation it's ridiculous.

[Jay Bell]

No problem at all, guys. Here's some scare for you...Mayor Gordon (of Phoenix) is getting together a lawsuit against the state and the Governor's office on civil rights issues because of this law. President Obama has a task force to find out if this is legal for Arizona to do.

I'm honestly so ticked off about all of this I just want to start slapping people. It's like people read these bills in hopes they'll find something to get upset about...even if they can't comprehend what they heck it says.

Again, not to lean away from the topic...but we have a state-wide bill on the block now for a 1 cent temporary sales tax (with expiration date) to help how bad our education problem has become. We've lost elementary schools, middle schools and over 1500 state-wide teaching positions, including those teachers with tenure. In my hometown in southern AZ, two elementary schools and a middle school have been closed. Another elementary school has not only lost art, music and PE, but have had to drop science, history and social studies and all sports programs due to lack of funding.

This 1 cent sales tax hike is going to bring back approximately 1200 teaching jobs, programs and such. I heard a comment today from a woman on the news board for Channel 3 say, "No tax is temporary, Obama needs to stop spending our money!" I'm so sick and tired of this.. When people in the general pop are too stupid to understand the difference between state and federal issues *and* they having the power to vote...no wonder our state is in shambles.

[nismophreek]

I still believe that Illegals should be dealt with like Invaders would be. If you are caught crossing the border illegally then you will be shot and killed. If you start pileing them up on the border then maybe they will get the hint that it's not such a good idea to ILLEGALLY cross borders into another country without documentation. There is a LEGAL way to gain citizenship and they should have to go through that process. If you are so h3ll bent on becoming a US citizen then go through the proper channels, get a job, pay your taxes and welcome.

I think that if they are so determined and will work so hard to come to the US then why don't they work that hard to change their own government so that their country will be a hospitable place to live instead of being a drag on OURs.

[David Craik]

So you would shoot unarmed men, women, and children. That is interesting.

[Jay Bell]

Update: The Capital Building was vandalized this morning. People smeared refried beans on the windows in the shape of swastikas..

[Erik]

I'm so sick and tired of this.. When people in the general pop are too stupid to understand the difference between state and federal issues *and* they having the power to vote...no wonder our state is in shambles.

I think a big part of it has to do with the deliberate dumbing-down and sensationalizing by the press. But heck, I'm quick to pick on reporters in general because they disgust me so much, so what do I know?

Was that serious about the swastika-beans?

On another note, I'm not really sure how I would prove I am a citizen if I were pulled over. I guess I'd have to carry around a social security card and/or passport wherever I went. How does one prove he's a citizen, anyway?

[Jay Bell]

I'm with you. We've talked on this forum plenty of how the media reports things that they have no understanding of (research, health-related science, etc) and it brings a skewed understanding to the general public.

Unfortunately, yes...it was serious.

In Arizona, the DMV cannot give a state driver's license to someone that cannot provide citizenship (or green card/work visa, etc). Of course, that said, I'm sure some of squeaked by that as well.

Edit: haha, my buddy just reminded me that if those folks are caught that smeared the swastikas, they'll be charged with hate crimes