Response to questions in regarding aikido, hakko-ryu and internal training

[Rasputin]

Mochi Mawari = (though in Hakkoryu the index finger would be more extended and the pinky leading the grip, and in my lineage anyway, the hand, wrist and forearm aligned vertically straight up and down).

Kote Hineri AKA Sankyo AKA Sankajo. We call it the former, and we make the same adjustments that you mention.

[Koshu]

On a new thread Ellis started, he makes the following caveat:

Here's what I'm not opening up this thread to discuss.
1. If Hakko-ryu has deep, inner teachings.
2. The legitimacy or strength the respective lines of Hakko-ryu, which apparently rank to different levels at different paces.
3. What A.J. Bryant or Mert Gambito should or should not be posting about their respective training. That's for that other thread.

Because item #3 may be on people's minds, here's a little historical clarification.

Unlike Daito-ryu where the various main branches began their differentiation earlier than Hakkoryu and its offshoots (Sokaku Takeda passed away over 40 years prior to Ryuho Okuyama), there's still a sense that the various Hakko-ryu/ha are still preserving the original system, which was fully codified under Okuyama whereas Daito-ryu's syllabus was much more up to interpretation and personal experiences among high-ranking students even while Takeda was alive. As a result, there have been mostly amicable attempts to compare syllabi elements of specific techniques and general interpretations over the years to further the integrity of this group preservation effort. The open exchange online, by phone and in person (there have been events attended by multiple ryuha over the years) has been important toward that end.

However, the transgressions on this thread suggest that perhaps it's time to acknowledge we're now where Daito-ryu has been, despite most of the ryuha's waza boards still bearing close resemblance to each others'.

[Jose Garrido]

Koshu, I really like your statement. Well said!!

Jose Garrido

[Koshu]

Thanks Jose.

Hope all's well. Please see the PM I sent you.

[Koshu]

Earlier in this thread, Andrew Bryant pointed to a couple references that I agree (now that I have a copy of What is Aiki?) are important references for understanding aiki as it’s implemented in Hakkoryu.

In a nutshell, the aiki-jujutsu techniques presented in What is Aiki? typically employ sen-no-sen inducing kuzushi from the get-go. As previously discussed in this thread, this type of tactical aiki is important in Hakkoryu, and could be seen as vital to “sophisticated” interpretations of jujutsu in general.

In the Winter 2007 issue of E-Journal of Jujutsu, Irie Yasuhiro, shodai soke of KoKoDo Jujutsu, states that to him budo must include both jujutsu and shiatsu / sappo and kappo (i.e. ways to kill as well as heal). Given this clarification of his art’s foundation, which is in keeping with that of mainline Hakkoryu, it’s not surprising that he goes on to say that from what he’s read and seen of Daito-ryu, he can’t see the “essence” of his martial art in Daito-ryu. He later provides a qualifying statement that aiki, as implemented in aikido and aiki-jujutsu, is utilized in KoKoDo, however, “whenever we cannot use aiki, we have this certain technique” that results in neutralization of the uke and kuzushi, and that “it’s possible to... [make it] look like aiki.”

Based on my few experiences training with Yasuhiro Sensei (who my teacher credits one of his significant influences) as well as the training in my primary lineage, the above statement rings true for me -- whether “aiki” is interpreted as tactics, internal body skills, or both.

All of this is just an(other) admonition to never be satisfied, but rather to remain zealously open minded about exploring one's art: to dig deep within it and constantly seek something more from one’s self through it. Cliff Brunetti, who has reportedly trained with Japanese and American shihan issued the highest rank in Hakkoryu by the founder, waxes on his dojo's website about revelations he received about the first waza taught in Hakkoryu (and the art overall) during his initial visit to the Hakkoryu hombu.

[giles]

Cliff Brunetti, [...] waxes on his dojo's website about revelations he received about the first waza taught in Hakkoryu (and the art overall) during his initial visit to the Hakkoryu hombu.

That "too strong" admonishment seems to be the recurring theme. I had a similar experience when, as a fresh dan grade, I turned up at the Daiwa Ryu dojo. Also had a bemused session one evening when Harada sensei made himself too heavy to lift from behind. I'm a physicist - you can't do that, even if I'd just experienced it. I worked it out a few weeks later: it turned out (or so I currently think) to be a subtle posture take.

So when does good body mechanics become aiki? I think that's a rhetorical question, but feel free to answer anyway!

[Mekugi]

So when does good body mechanics become aiki? I think that's a rhetorical question, but feel free to answer anyway!

Exactly. Good mechanics are "aiki". Playing them off like magic is foolish.
I had a certain "aiki" oriented person try something similar on me down here in Aichi when I first came by. His head came up to my shoulders, I simply dwarfed him. I dunno what he was thinking, either I was foolish or just fell off the boat or something, but he was demonstrating the "awesome power" of "ki" where students were asked to pick him up but could not. So I watched for a but and then he asked me to pick him up "The same way" (by his elbows). Before he could do anything I simply dropped, wrapped my arms around his waist and hoisted him into the air and then onto my side like I was carrying a surfboard. He was more than a little ticked off. I never went back......I doubt I was welcome.

[Rasputin]

Good thing you didn't try picking him up by his elbows, or it'd be your a$$.

[Mekugi]

Good thing you didn't try picking him up by his elbows, or it'd be your a$$.

Haahaa! That's the truth.
"Why tug on the leaves of a weed when you can pull it out by the root?", I say. Not very nice of me, although he did ask me to pick him up after all, just not that way...

[Koshu]

Mekugi-Dori --> Note how the tori scans for other possible attackers instead of just fixating on the foiled elder master of ki:



Aiki is clearly a combination of superior/efficient tactics (psychological as well as physical) and body mechanics in varying degrees depending on one's interpretation. (I like how Russ did not choose to "play the game" with the demonstrator, as an example of tactics.)

Giles --- As for the "too strong" admonishment, a number of people of people I've spoken with since this thread got underway say they appreciate the nudge to not take for granted the basics in the art: i.e. the "entry level" kihon waza and the information in the Hakkoryu literature and oral teachings pertaining to kamae, breathing, ma'ai and mental focus for example.

Most practitioners treat Hakko-Dori as something perfunctory they have to do to graduate past the indignity of wearing a white belt, and maintain the same "been there done that" attitude about it that Cliff Brunetti says he held upon first setting foot in the hombu as a relatively seasoned practitioner (presumably as a nidan). So if following this thread inspires some folks to seek what allowed the nidai soke to not just get free of Cliff's grasp, but use it as kaeshi-waza, then great: it will profoundly improve the quality of their training and ability. Otherwise, all the time spent doing waza is just (really arcane) choreography.