Newb questions about bujinkan controversy and history

[Fundamental]

Hi all,

I picked up a few Hatsumi books from a local library when I was 13 and instantly fell in love with the techniques as described and the history,legends and traditions surrounding Hatsumi's teachings. Now finally after 12 years of procrastination (lol) I have finally taken the plunge and started to actually train in Bujinkan.
Doing a bit of research I've come across many forums, threads and websites that try to cast some doubt on the history and lineages as presented by Hatsumi.
After scouring the net I joined Budoseek because from what I have seen the members seem to have a much more mature attitude than elsewhere and so I feel confident that I can post this discussion thread without it descending into mud-slinging and flaming/trolling etc
Anyway I know that there are some people on here with a lot of knowledge and I hope some of you can fill me in on what he supposed short comings of the history is and what your research or experiences have lead you to discover on the subject.

Also, could anyone point me in the direction of any books on bujinkan history/principles or anything other than the techniques.

Thank you in advance for anyone who takes the time to help me out.

[Tony Dismukes]

Here's the short version of what's known regarding Bujinkan history:

1) It's very well documented that Hatsumi studied under Takamatsu and was fully credentialed in the nine traditions that Takamatsu claimed mastery in.

2) Takamatsu was known to be a legitimate martial artist. Two of the nine traditions that Takamatsu claimed mastery in (Takagi Yoshin ryu, and Kukishin ryu) are known to be legitimate historical schools, and Takamatsu is known to have been fully credentialed in those two systems. I have read that Takamatsu's interpretation and teaching of those systems may have had some significant differences from the main branches.

3) There is no independent evidence of the historical existence of the other seven traditions before Takamatsu himself. Hatsumi holds scrolls from those systems, but they have never been evaluated by historians. We have no real documentation of Takamatsu's teacher(s).

4) The tradition within the Bujinkan which is claimed to be the oldest is Togakure Ryu, which is supposedly around 800 years old with an unbroken line of grandmasters since its founding. If true, that would be pretty remarkable, It would be much, much older than any other existing school of martial arts. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and so far no external evidence has been produced for the existence of Togakure Ryu prior to Takamatsu.

5) Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence. We don't really have any good way to judge what exactly was passed down to Takamatsu or what he might have created himself. Perhaps Togakure Ryu dates back a couple of hundred years, but Takamatsu's teacher's teacher exaggerated the lineage to impress his students. At this point, we're unlikely to ever find out.

6) If you like what you're learning in the Bujinkan, then have fun with it. Just don't assume that anything you're doing necessarily matches exactly the training of some Japanese warrior 500 years ago.

[bujinkan-store]

As far as records go, there are large gaps in the history of Takamatsu himself, but no one doubts his knowledge or ability. Japanese history does have these gaps, it is very hard to piece everything together with documentated facts. It was, and still is, a very secretive society.


Lisa