matsumoto ryu ninpo

[kcs]

Does anyone have any information on matsumoto ryu ninpo? I have looked and looked and the only thing I have found is that it is part of the Iga. Togichi prefecture. I cannot find anything else on it.

[kcs]

I mean Tochigi prefecture.

[ScholarsInk]

Fake.

Next.

[kcs]

Fake.

Next.

WOW seriously is that cause you never heard of it or you know for a fact that it is fake..

[Don Roley]

WOW seriously is that cause you never heard of it or you know for a fact that it is fake..

I know that it existed, but no longer. Can you prove otherwise?

[ruha]

..snippets from my notes;

It's a school mentioned in BRDJT... founded by Matsumoto Rokuemon who died during the Osaka Summer Campaign in 1615, fighting for general Kimura Shigenari.
Since it's connection to Kimura it's propably based on Koga-den.... mostly known for it juujutsu [ 呪術]... Jinichi Kawakami has copies of its makimono's
This school dont exist any more

All this is secondary information from many different sources..

[kcs]

Right Don I know it existed but it died off. I will pm you more about it. As to Scholarsink saying it is fake it is not. He claiming it is fake show me the proof then that it is fake. I would like to have more information about it. If no one can that is fine.

I know that it existed, but no longer. Can you prove otherwise?

[Don Roley]

He claiming it is fake show me the proof then that it is fake.

Actually, since the Bugei Ryuha Daijiten and other sources list it as a dead art, then anyone claiming to have training in it has the burden of proof put on them. They have to prove they actually learned it.

Of course, it should be kept in context. If I show part of a ryuha at a seminar very briefly, then maybe it would be hard to prove. But if you put in the time and effort to get menkyo kaiden or even become soke, then the amount of evidence should be pretty large.

[kcs]

so you yourself is saying that it used to be around years and years ago right? so is it fake? no. that is what i am trying to get at from scholarsink post saying it is fake. i never said i have proof that it is still around and cannot provide proof. i know it died out. the pm i sent you is the reason i am asking for more info.

Actually, since the Bugei Ryuha Daijiten and other sources list it as a dead art, then anyone claiming to have training in it has the burden of proof put on them. They have to prove they actually learned it.

Of course, it should be kept in context. If I show part of a ryuha at a seminar very briefly, then maybe it would be hard to prove. But if you put in the time and effort to get menkyo kaiden or even become soke, then the amount of evidence should be pretty large.

[TonyU]

I fixed your quote. All right, so it isn't fake. You made your point now move on. Let's not derail an interesting thread with sniping.

[Don Roley]

so you yourself is saying that it used to be around years and years ago right? so is it fake? no.

Present tense "is."

Past tense "was."

It was real, now it is not.

If someone is claiming to be able to teach this school, then the burden of proof is on them to show that they are qualified. So anyone claiming to teach it is a fake in my book until they can show otherwise.

At this point, what else is there needed to be known? I am not really eager to put out all the information I have in my notes about the thread if there is a chance a fraud will read it here and use it to make their story sound better.

[kcs]

thanks don.

Present tense "is."

Past tense "was."

It was real, now it is not.

If someone is claiming to be able to teach this school, then the burden of proof is on them to show that they are qualified. So anyone claiming to teach it is a fake in my book until they can show otherwise.

At this point, what else is there needed to be known? I am not really eager to put out all the information I have in my notes about the thread if there is a chance a fraud will read it here and use it to make their story sound better.

[TonyU]

At this point, what else is there needed to be known? I am not really eager to put out all the information I have in my notes about the thread if there is a chance a fraud will read it here and use it to make their story sound better.

This is disappointing as I would have loved to know more about it. My knowledge of Ninpo is very limited, but I can understand your concern.

[kcs]

From what I was told and I am really interested in it as well now. It was the espionage aspect. Now I can't provide proof, that is what was told to me by a person. Don can correct me if I am wrong but I think there were at least 73 different schools at one time.

[Don Roley]

It was the espionage aspect. Now I can't provide proof, that is what was told to me by a person.

In my experience, that probably means that someone read a few books on spying and decided to teach what little he knew under the guise of some long dead style of ninjutsu. It is far from being the first time I have seen something like that happen.

Judging from what you have said here, and what I know about the history from my notes, it looks like you are being lied to by someone who does not know much about the subject matter and is counting on you knowing even less.

[ScholarsInk]

Right Don I know it existed but it died off. I will pm you more about it. As to Scholarsink saying it is fake it is not. He claiming it is fake show me the proof then that it is fake. I would like to have more information about it. If no one can that is fine.

kcs, I too have heard about the historical school by that name - I have not, however, heard of anyone trained in/teaching it in modern times.

There is a definite difference between something existing in the past and it continuing to present day.