Karate and Law Enforcement?

[Erik]

I have been in Corrections for 23 years. Some may consider that Law Enforcement. Some may not.

I have no idea how anyone would think not.

Question - how did your training methods help or hinder how you needed to apply your training? Which types of practice really helped? Which were less efficient in training you how to perform? (Honest question - I'm NOT picking on kata, Tony!) I'm trying to understand how to spot an effective, practical karate program when I see one.

[CEB]

This is different. You do not see this on the news everyday.

[TonyU]

This is different. You do not see this on the news everyday.

Very nice! Thanks for posting. A security guard at that. I wish more cops would take it as serious and do that kind of training.

[Erik]

Nice job, "Karate!" Really nice striking! Wondering why he did not use his less-lethal equipment, though. I'm no cop but I'd be concerned that, were I tangled up with someone like that, they could take my sidearm. I couldn't tell if he had one, though.

Too bad Turner did not have any sense pounded into him but I guess he's just going to be an O2 Thief for the rest of his life....

Question - does Karate teach to keep the guard up like that? I was under the (quite possibly mistaken) impression that there exists a big debate between Eastern and Western schools of thought where Eastern champions a low guard. Is this incorrect? Just wondering.

[CEB]

Our Goju Ryu keeps a high guard. Our basic posture when applied (Sanchin no Kamae) is basically a modified boxer's crouch. Shotokan kept a low guard when I did that

[TonyU]

I was never taught a low guard. I can only surmise it came about as of the "tag" game of tournaments. Good sparring will break you out of that bad habit, especially after getting hit on the button waking up looking up from the mat at your instructor and wondering what happened. I can tell you from experience.

Now, if I may, when the suspect throws the right and the security guard blocks, that motion is also an upward elbow strike. That movement is in two of our kata. When the security guard counters with the horizontal elbow strike that movement is also in several of our kata. So are the knee strikes.

A few years ago I got caught in a similar situation. The suspect took several swings. I blocked in the same manner. Everything felt like it slowed down. I saw an opening so I tried to counter with a right. At that moment he ducked and tried for a shoot.
He failed.

[CEB]

FWIW here is a random internet pic found on Google - posture from Sanseiru.
Barbara-Sanseiru.jpg

Her posture is a little different. Karate is not as standardized and anciently set in stone as some Karate teachers would lead you to think.

In ours the "punch" is aligned above the leading knee and the elbow is aligned above the knee also. All three stacked above each other. Our posture in the solo form is more difficult mechanically she would have to bend the front knee a lot more or Sensei would smack her behind with a shinai.... otherwise the elbow and "punch" doesn't reach.

In basic Yakusoku kumite this is primarily 2 things.
1) It is that block being discussed. The knee goes inside the attackers knee the punch is at a downward angle to the best available target. The liver is good. There are a couple of other go to targets also. Just hit him Vito!

2) The preceeding kick either a) doubled him other and he is falling on you or b) kick didn't work quite as effective as hoped and he tries to wrap you. The elbow / forearm is a hard bridge technique. Target solar plexus/ breastbone. Hit him hard try to keep your posture and position. Create space follow with a liver shot, headbutt etc.... do what you have to do to survive. Mean people suck.

Then series is usually folllowed with a takedown and heel stompage.

Our kata interpretations generally teaches concepts. Principles and development are as important as waza. Just being in good physical shape with a hard agressive fighting back attitude will get you something. If I was a betting man I would take my 17 year old boy against most 17 year old martial artist.

A big idea we work in this kata's bunkai is what to do if the preceeding technique didn't work. You see this kind of brought to light through out the 2 man form.

[TonyU]

FWIW here is a random internet pic found on Google - posture from Sanseiru.
Barbara-Sanseiru.jpg

Her posture is a little different. Karate is not as standardized anciently set in stone as some Karate teachers would led you to think.

In ours the "punch" is aligned above the leading knee and the elbow is aligned above the knee also. All three stacked above each other. Our posture in the solo form is more difficult mechanically she would have to bend the front knee a lot more or Sensei would smack her behind with a shinai.... otherwise the elbow and "punch" doesn't reach.

In basic Yakusoku kumite this is primarily 2 things.
1) It is that block being discussed. The knee goes inside the attackers knee the punch is at a downward angle to the best available target. The liver is good. There are a couple of other go to targets also. Just hit him Vito!

2) The preceeding kick either a) doubled him other and he is falling on you or b) kick didn't work quite as effective as hoped and he tries to wrap you. The elbow / forearm is a hard bridge technique. Target solar plexus/ breastbone. Hit him hard try to keep your posture and position. Create space follow with a liver shot, headbutt etc.... do what you have to do to survive. Mean people suck.

Then series is usually folllowed with a takedown and heel stompage.

Our kata interpretation generally teaches concepts. A big idea we work in this katas bunkai is what to do if the preceeding technique didn't work. You see this kind of brought to light through out the 2 man form.

Excellent post as usual, Ed. Just wanted to highlight the aforementioned sentence. Very big, valid, and true point!

[Erik]

Wow, Karate is not what I thought it is. I'm so glad to be reading these threads and the ones with the explanation of and videos of kata (bunkai?)

Tony, I think the low/high guard discussion is related to range, low for leg-range, higher for hand-range. Then, it gets confused when people who are only 1/2 educated start arguing about it. That's just my guess.

I don't know a lot about this stuff - just enough to try to get into a clinch when my understanding starts.

[sean_stonehart]

Good stuff that... no doubt.

The elbow up guard posture is what I call our "Oh ****!!!" posture to cover up if/when something comes in, expected or not.

The picture of the girl is similar too. I can name 4 or 5 different sets off hand where the same motion is performed. Elbow up with a punch outbound.

I think a lot of more "conflict" born or related styles will share these things & more.

[Jonathan Randall]

This is different. You do not see this on the news everyday.

Thanks for posting that, Ed. I love to watch a righteous byatch slapping, lol.

[dojo]

A well rounded karateka should be fine. I have seen some excellent martial artists and I am sure they will do great. Those who are only 'belt chasers and ballet dancers' shouldn't do any 'kuhrate' outside their dojo