Advise Please?

[JWhiteSensei]

Ok. I'm going to sing the same song that most Americans are singing right now. The economy is killing my dojo. I have went from over 45 students to 19 over the summer. Last week I pulled my 2 black belts and my brown belt into my office on Sunday and discussed the situation. We are at critical mass right now. Some on told me that if we could just hang on until the end of September and let school get started again we would be ok. I'm not sure just what crystal ball they were looking in but I certainly hope they were right. I have started taking as many aggresive steps at marketing as I can with absolutely NO cash. I have:

• Passed out flyers at the local 4H Fair
• Been passing out business cards, and having my students do so as well, like crazy.
• Talked the local Pizza Hut into attaching 200 flyers to their delivery / take-out boxes this weekend
• Am sponsering a free Women's Self Defense Seminar next weekend.
• Have told the local Boys and Girls Club I would give any kids that they refered to me discounts on tuition
• Offered to do a 6 week Basic Karate Class at the Boys and Girls Club
• Told my students whoever gets the most people to come in and actually sign up for classes would get a free test
• Sent out letters to former students inviting them back

Guys, I am at the end of my rope We are still planning on doing more flyers during a couple of parades that are coming up. I am simply stressed beyond my limits right now. If any of you have any suggestions of any marketing strategies that are free or at a VERY low cost, please let me know.

[jjaje]

How is your web page, where does it show up when people search for martial arts or karate?
Did you claim your local listing from google?
Are you using other review sites, such as yelp and manta?

There are a ton of things you can do to your web page so that it comes up more frequently, and has a greater chance of someone following through into a sales lead.

[wab25]

There are a ton of things you can do to your web page so that it comes up more frequently, and has a greater chance of someone following through into a sales lead.

Any chance you could offer a few tips or suggestions? I would be interested as well.

[TonyU]

Everything you're doing is all well and good to get new students. What are you doing to retain the ones you have? You lost almost 50% of your student base. That's a little high.

[Abbax8]

Get on Facebook and just chat with your current students, freind them. Then friend their friends. The chat about the club will be see by non-students and may generate some inquiries. Also announce to your students on facebook the self defense seminar, etc. It will get the word out.

Dennis

[Cliff Hargrave]

1. Raise your prices
2. Contracts with auto-billing only, unless they cash out in advance for a discount (NO Month to month payers!)
3. Website that is easy to find and designed properly. (Research "Squeeze Pages")
4. Tony is right, find out WHY you are losing so many.
5. Personally call every one that left and try to get them back, or at least get some feedback.
6. Yard signs and lead boxes are much better than flyers, probably the best direct marketing there is.
7. Join this place http://www.starting-a-martial-arts-school.com/
8. Get this e-book: http://www.small-dojo-big-profits.com/

[JWhiteSensei]

How is your web page, where does it show up when people search for martial arts or karate?
Did you claim your local listing from google?
Are you using other review sites, such as yelp and manta?

There are a ton of things you can do to your web page so that it comes up more frequently, and has a greater chance of someone following through into a sales lead.

Hi Jeff and thanks. the web site comes up #2 on Google. I am using several other review and link sites as well..

[JWhiteSensei]

1. Raise your prices
2. Contracts with auto-billing only, unless they cash out in advance for a discount (NO Month to month payers!)
3. Website that is easy to find and designed properly. (Research "Squeeze Pages")
4. Tony is right, find out WHY you are losing so many.
5. Personally call every one that left and try to get them back, or at least get some feedback.
6. Yard signs and lead boxes are much better than flyers, probably the best direct marketing there is.
7. Join this place http://www.starting-a-martial-arts-school.com/
8. Get this e-book: http://www.small-dojo-big-profits.com/

Thanks Jeff. i have raised my prices just this month. Funny, my main "competition" saw that I raised my prices and lowered his. I have tried the Lead Boxes before. thanks for the reminder. I will try them again as well as checking out the links you gave me. I sent out letters to a bunch who had left. A lot of them have gone because they moved out of town though so I have been limited to the number of reconnections to be made.

[JWhiteSensei]

Get on Facebook and just chat with your current students, freind them. Then friend their friends. The chat about the club will be see by non-students and may generate some inquiries. Also announce to your students on facebook the self defense seminar, etc. It will get the word out.

Dennis

Hi Dennis. thank you. My daughter, and one of my black belts is getting ready to launch us on FaceBook. I talked to her about it when I read this. We had thought of it before but never got it going. she is the FaceBook guru of the family so I have deemed it to her.

[JWhiteSensei]

Everything you're doing is all well and good to get new students. What are you doing to retain the ones you have? You lost almost 50% of your student base. That's a little high.

No, it's a LOT high. Some of them have moved to larger cities because of thier jobs. Some of them live a pretty good way out of town and simply could not afford the gas to drive to class. One family of 3 are supposed to be back when school starts (now) because they live about 30 miles away and making the trip 4 times a day was killing them on gas. There have been quite a few other reasons.

Of course I take the responsibility for it whether it's my fault or not. I have recently went back to a little more of a hard core training program. We had gotten a little lax in it because of the large number of children in class. I would go to hang my gi up to dry at the end of a class and it wasn't even wet. I have also started incorporating more self defense in the class and am looking at doing more weapons as well. We did a workout in the park a couple of weeks ago and it was very well attended. Planning on doing a few more of those before it gets too cold.

[JWhiteSensei]

I wanted to say thank you to all of you guys. I've had so many people come up to me and put their hand on my shoulder and say "Don't worry. Things will be all right". The truth of the matter is things are certainly NOT going to be alright unless I take action and take the right actions. This has happened one time before and it was then, just like it is now, totally my fault. The one lesson I have learned from this is to NEVER sit back and say Life Is Good and stop marketing.

You guys have given me some practical advise and some good ideas. You have also verified that some of what I am doing is right. Although I can't afford yard signs or memberships right now (I'm gonna be lucky to keep the lights and gas on this month) they are things I'd love to do when I get a little cash.

I guess sometimes we have to get kicked down so we can learn how to get back up. I'm Irish. I have a detrimental stubborn streak sometimes. I will not quit until there is absolutely no other option.

[Abbax8]

Jim,
One more idea. Does your town or county have a recreation council. Here in Blair County, PA. there is the Central Blair Recreation Council. They sponsor all kind of things, often from private businesses like health clubs and MA schools. If there is such an entity there, it is one more option to market yourself.

Dennis

[TonyU]

Of course I take the responsibility for it whether it's my fault or not. I have recently went back to a little more of a hard core training program. We had gotten a little lax in it because of the large number of children in class.

Woah, hold on a minute.. You mix your children in with your adults? You should have a separate class for them and on top of that they should not be run like a adult class.

[JWhiteSensei]

Jim,
One more idea. Does your town or county have a recreation council. Here in Blair County, PA. there is the Central Blair Recreation Council. They sponsor all kind of things, often from private businesses like health clubs and MA schools. If there is such an entity there, it is one more option to market yourself.

Dennis

Hi Dennis,

Yes. there is a Shorikan guy who has taught for them for years. Love the guy. He keeps to himself and doesn't do a lot of interacting with the other schools. Why should he? LOL, the Rec district pays for any advertising he does, gives him a place to teach, and pays him to do so. Great gig. Great idea though Dennis I appreciate your thinking of me. Right now I'm trying a partnership with the Boys and Girls Club. They just opened in June and are in a building right across the alley behind me.

[JWhiteSensei]

Woah, hold on a minute.. You mix your children in with your adults? You should have a separate class for them and on top of that they should not be run like a adult class.

LOL. Calm down a little. everyone does basics together. Then we seperate the class. I will bring them back together at the end if we do something like self defense techniques because I believe a child should be able to defend himself against an adult. We are actually looking at restarting our Tiny Tiger Program which is similar to the Little Dragons.

[TonyU]

LOL. Calm down a little. everyone does basics together. Then we seperate the class. I will bring them back together at the end if we do something like self defense techniques because I believe a child should be able to defend himself against an adult. We are actually looking at restarting our Tiny Tiger Program which is similar to the Little Dragons.

Nope, sorry, still wrong way to go. Kids should be a a complete separate class from adults. Adults do not like to train with children and children can be intimidated by adults. Occasionally mixing it is ok if you do it as an extra like a make up class or run specifically a self defense class.

Here's my take, but before I begin let me tell you where I'm coming from. I've been with my sensei since 1987 who's run a successful traditional school since 1969. From 1992 to 1994 it was so successful that I worked for him full time as a program director.
Here's what I've learned.
1. Kids class separate.
2. Age group separate.
3. Rank separate
4. Kids classes cannot be run like the adult class.

Now don't get me wrong. We're hurting in this economy as well. People are not walking in the door like they used to. That's why you have to keep the ones you have.

If and when I open up a school I plan on doing almost everything Cliff mentioned and build it around kids.
This is my opinion and my opinion only. Kids carry the school. Build a kids class large enough to cover the expenses. Parents don't care about kata or tradition. They care that their kids having a good time. Some may care about self defense but most don't as we're a society of pacifist.
So my kids classes would be basics, self defense techniques, pads, and lots of sparring. I would also add games that support and supplement many of the techniques. You have to make it fun.
In your eyes karate is not a sport but in the parents and the kids it is. Thus you have to compete with all the sports out there. You can argue that you get much more than sports all you want, but the parents ain't hearing it. Trust me. Been there done that.

Now, do that and you can run your adults like you want. It may be small but can maintain the integrity of the style with the adults. In other words kids I'll teach karate, adults I'll teach Shorin Ryu karate. There's a difference.

Oh, one other thing I forgot to mention. Everyone walking in the door is a customer. Eventually you may want to convert them into students, but they are first customers.

[JWhiteSensei]

thank you tony. I will take all of that into consideration. Time management is against me, or time in general. If it was 6 months in the future and I was retired, I could devote more time to opening more classes with more hours. Right now I work, my black belts work or go to school and my brown belt works. I'm going to sit down sunday and take a hard look at things and see if I can work some of these things in. One other major thing that i have, I have actually built quite a name for it, is my classes allow parents to work out WITH their children. Bellieve it or not, it's actually a perk.

[Underdog]

Unfortunately I can't think of any input that hasn't already been said. The best I can offer is my own 0.02 cents.

With regards to the enrollment number of students, I would agree that I also believe it will pick back up in September as well. There are just so many variables to consider, such as people going on trip's or vacation. There are also people who may not be able to make it regularly because with their kids out for the summer they dont have as much free time or may have other expenses like a baby sitter for example. Case in point, last year during the summer my Dojo's begginner class dropped down to 8 students, however by the end of September the class was actually so bloated with newcommers that we had to push some people early into the advanced class to make room, and even after that there was a waiting list to get in. Just wall to wall people. July and August are a caution to the wind couple of months, people fall out of their regular routine, when it get's to be fall people tend to settle back into the groove of things.

Also I would like to agree with Tony who posted before me, I would really lke to emphasize how important class structure is to a STUDENT of the class. It set's the environment for those learning. Having a childrens only class would allow you to have it set as a more relaxed and fun class, that the parents will enjoy because their kids will be allowed to have fun while also learning something. You may have already been hurting your business by mixing the adults with the kids simply because there may be parents who arent comfortable with their kids training alongside adults, and there may be adults who are not comfortable with their being children around when they are training. This could also help with enrollment because you could have seperate classes that you can advertise. A children's class is a much more 'Child friendly product' if you will, which will allow you to market it more directly to the parent's. In the same token you can market your adult class to a more specific market of people, and have a much more focused class.

On top of that, I would also like to reccomend splitting it into sectioned classes as well, such as begginner's-intermediate's one class, and advanced-Black Belt's in another. The smaller or more focused groups will give you a chance to give more focused attention and more general overall lesson's to the room, while giving you more time to spend making corrections. The more individual attention someone get's the more progress they will feel they are making, and it's that feeling that will help keep people coming back.

Lastly a thought I had just now, with the school season having freshly started, you could also go to nearby local school's, elementry middle etc, and if you can get the school's permission, do a free seminar in the school gymnasium for any who would like to participate. If you included possibly a small demonstration, as well as some of the history of your specific martial art, it could go a long way. It may spark an interest in some people who may not have that interest sparked by advertisement on a flayer. It's a much more personal touch to meeting potential new student's. "This is who I am, this is what I do, let me show you" sort of approach.

Anyway, best of luck. I'm sure it has been said before, but do try not to stress out about it. Your somewhat playing the waiting game right now, and it can be hard. You just have to remember that 5 minutes, is 5 minutes regardless, if your stressed out that 5 minutes can feel like an hour, and your burning what could be positive energy being put into the gym, into worrying and actually taking away from your efforts. How the cards play out isn't something you can predict, but fight the good fight and every month you can keep a roof over your dojo is one more small step towards success. Also, the night is darkest before the dawn.

[TonyU]

thank you tony. I will take all of that into consideration. Time management is against me, or time in general. If it was 6 months in the future and I was retired, I could devote more time to opening more classes with more hours. Right now I work, my black belts work or go to school and my brown belt works. I'm going to sit down sunday and take a hard look at things and see if I can work some of these things in. One other major thing that i have, I have actually built quite a name for it, is my classes allow parents to work out WITH their children. Bellieve it or not, it's actually a perk.

Sorry, but that also don't hold water for me. It sounds to me like you're making excuses. My sensei from '78 to '87 was a patrol officer working shifts. He did it. It was tough but he did.
All you need is one 45 minute kids class and 1 hour adult class. When started out you don't need to do it every day. It can be 3 times a week until you build a student base.
So, as an example, if you work a 9 to 5 a 6 to 6:45 kids class then a 6:45 to 7:45 adult class. You have time to go home, unwind and eat dinner. Run a kids class, then an adult one. If the adult class is going well that particular day it can go a little longer.

[Webmaster]

Just to chime in here, but I totally agree with Tony. You need to have separate children's classes, period. You may view having little Johnny and Susie training with Mommy and Daddy a benefit, and you may have students that like that, but I can assure you they are in the minority. I have yet to meet any adult who wanted to train with children, and have had many ask me specifically if children trained with the adults. The fact that they did not was to them a benefit, and those are just the ones that asked.

The problem is that with any class, you have to tailor it for the students that are on hand, and children cannot learn at the same level as adults. So you are either teaching over the heads of the children, or you are teaching adults like children. You can't have both.

If you really want to have a kid and adult mixed class, do it as a separate class (outside of regular adult or children's classes) sometime in the week and advertise it as a "Mixed age workout" and a special benefit for those you want it. Don't teach anything in the class, just make it a tough workout doing that which your students already know (like drills or such).