ITF's policy for accepting students with an outside Dan certificate

**oni-no-nunchaku** · 09-08-2011, 10:42

Well just like the title says. What is the ITF's policy for accepting students with a Dan certificate?

I may be interested in joining a local ITF club. So if I can join as a Black Belt, than I may as well. I have a 1st Dan in Chung Do Kwan TKD.

**Webmaster** · 09-08-2011, 11:38

Originally Posted by oni-no-nunchaku

Well just like the title says. What is the ITF's policy for accepting students with a Dan certificate?

If it's like most organizations, then the check or postal money order must first clear the bank.

**Jonathan Randall** · 09-08-2011, 22:41

Originally Posted by Webmaster

If it's like most organizations, then the check or postal money order must first clear the bank.

The question is: which of the 3 ITF's that emerged after General Choi's death should he send it to?

**oni-no-nunchaku** · 09-10-2011, 07:14

To Webmaster: Do you mean that I'll probably have to pay? That's probably true. Not the most modest way of getting things done >.>

I was doing some reading, it looks like if you want to join the ITF, you have to surrender you old Dan certificate over to the ITF. I really think that this is a disgusting policy.

Originally Posted by Jonathan Randall

The question is: which of the 3 ITF's that emerged after General Choi's death should he send it to?

Haha indeed.

I wish it were the old school ITF, but the club here is apart of the Modern ITF; so that means the disgusting SW. :P

**Webmaster** · 09-10-2011, 08:35

Originally Posted by oni-no-nunchaku

To Webmaster: Do you mean that I'll probably have to pay? That's probably true. Not the most modest way of getting things done >.>

Knowing most martial arts organizations, particularly Korean ones, you will likely be paying some ridiculous amount. Can you take out a second mortgage on your home?

Originally Posted by oni-no-nunchaku

I was doing some reading, it looks like if you want to join the ITF, you have to surrender you old Dan certificate over to the ITF. I really think that this is a disgusting policy.

That is such an obvious attempt to gain control over you, I would be running as fast as possible in the other direction. What if this current ITF turns out to be a diploma mill and it's rank certificate are worthless? You'll have no way of proving that you once held one of the old certificates and you'll be forever tied to them.

**oni-no-nunchaku** · 09-11-2011, 14:08

Originally Posted by Webmaster

Knowing most martial arts organizations, particularly Korean ones, you will likely be paying some ridiculous amount. Can you take out a second mortgage on your home?

Haha, agreed. It's horrible when the become organizations, because then it's more about money then student body.

Originally Posted by Webmaster

That is such an obvious attempt to gain control over you, I would be running as fast as possible in the other direction. What if this current ITF turns out to be a diploma mill and it's rank certificate are worthless? You'll have no way of proving that you once held one of the old certificates and you'll be forever tied to them.

I heard this was not true from a friend. But the more I read about the ITF, the more confusing it gets, and the more I become dis-interested in it. But I definatly agree that the ITF trys to gain control over their students. I was reading the Laws and the By Laws, and they said that if any of the students have anything to do with an opposing style of Martial Art (Kukkiwon I believe), that the student would be removed from the ITF. Pretty totalitarian.

So I think I'm staying with the Kukkiwon :P

**coralreefer** · 09-18-2011, 23:16

Just out of curiosity..why couldn't you just EARN the ITF certificate rather than jumping through all the hoops of trying to convert your existing one?

As you mention in the OP, you are interested in the club but it comes off like you will only attend there IF they will let you wear a BB. Even if they did allow you to wear a BB and change your certificate, you would still have to learn all of the lower rank forms and other material anyway, so why not just go in there as a white belt with previous experience, and go through the ranks like everyone else? I mean, you would likely advance at a faster rate, but to me that seems like a much better option than paying out money for the cert conversion, losing your existing Kukkiwon cert, and being in class wearing a black belt but practicing forms with white belts.

Does wearing a BB in class mean that much?

**Jonathan Randall** · 09-19-2011, 02:41

Originally Posted by coralreefer

Just out of curiosity..why couldn't you just EARN the ITF certificate rather than jumping through all the hoops of trying to convert your existing one?

As you mention in the OP, you are interested in the club but it comes off like you will only attend there IF they will let you wear a BB. Even if they did allow you to wear a BB and change your certificate, you would still have to learn all of the lower rank forms and other material anyway, so why not just go in there as a white belt with previous experience, and go through the ranks like everyone else? I mean, you would likely advance at a faster rate, but to me that seems like a much better option than paying out money for the cert conversion, losing your existing Kukkiwon cert, and being in class wearing a black belt but practicing forms with white belts.

Does wearing a BB in class mean that much?

That's not how I took it at all. The OP said he may be interested in joining a local ITF club and may ALSO be interested in getting his current BB rank recognized.

As you must know, forms are only one component of training. As a white belt, he may not even be allowed to spar. Also, why pay coloured belt testing fees through 9 gups? There are good reasons for transfering in-grade, or close to it, in the same art. One should not assume that the ego of wearing a black belt is the reason.

**coralreefer** · 09-20-2011, 06:29

Originally Posted by Jonathan Randall

That's not how I took it at all. The OP said he may be interested in joining a local ITF club and may ALSO be interested in getting his current BB rank recognized.

As you must know, forms are only one component of training. As a white belt, he may not even be allowed to spar. Also, why pay coloured belt testing fees through 9 gups? There are good reasons for transfering in-grade, or close to it, in the same art. One should not assume that the ego of wearing a black belt is the reason.

First, let me start off by saying that I made no assumption that the OP has an ego issue concerning wearing a BB, however I must admit that I can understand how one may come to that conclusion given my closing question.

However what I was referring to with that question was not concerning the "ego" of expecting to wear a BB, but rather whether or not it was worth it to wear that BB given the information and opinions of the subject by others in the thread, in particular to the comments of our Administrator and Benevolent Dictator . As of yet no one has contributed any concrete policy to how this kind of situation would play out. It could be as simple as a rather laid back instructor simply applying for the official certificate and filling in the information in such a way that makes the OP appear as if they had always been their student and only had ITF training, or the instructor could be more strict and demand that the Kukkiwon certificate be forfeited, the OP name expunged from the Kukkiwons listings...or whatever other actions may be required to do this.

You boldly pointed out the "same art", and while they both may be called Taekwondo, in my humble opinion there are enough differences between them that it would be a stretch to use the word "same" when describing the two. Certainly they are not as different as Taekwondo and Judo, or any other possible combination of arts, but with different forms, different kicking philosophies and styles, different techniques, different rules for sparring...etc etc, that starting over as a white belt in ITF would lead to a more solid understanding of the differences and distinctions between them, and again in my humble opinion leading to a more rewarding experience.

Anyway, it seems the OP has chosen to stay with their Kukkiwon.

**oni-no-nunchaku** · 10-01-2011, 14:05

Hoi,
Jonathan Randall sums up my position quite well actually. I'm only interested in seeing if I can join as a BB, because BB's have benefits that lower ranks don't (like sparring, advanced classes, more "political pull" in the club, help with instructing, etc etc.). So if there's a possibilty to join as a BB from my old school, why not?

Saddly, my situation is a bit more complicated than switching from KKW to ITF. I am actually a 1st Dan in Chung Do Kwan style TKD. And I have moved away from my home country for college, so that means I've also moved away from my old club. So I have to join a new school (whether ITF or KKW), and since I'm not really at the WB level, it'd be nice to transfer my rank to one of these styles. I have no real qualms about joining at a WB level, but I'd prefer to have my BB.

As an update, I've joined a local Kukkiwon school, and I am currently not wearing a belt in class. The instructors work with the national KKW organization, and is helping me with my transfer; not really a transfer, I'm just going to take a KKW BB test when they do tests.