Juice fasting

[Cliff Hargrave]

http://www.fatsickandnearlydead.com/

[Rasputin]

Yep.

Nope.

I'm glad it worked for him. It's a very unhealthy way to cut out the actual unhealthy parts of the Standard American diet. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, anywhere. Juice, even vegetable juice, concentrates the sugars (the unhealthiest parts of the plant) and removes the fiber (the only thing stopping the runaway rise in blood sugar).

The guy who made the movie unfortunately fell afoul of the radical vegans, who convinced him that meat and animal fat are the root of all ailments (see The China Study for further misinformation), when it was the sugar, grains, and vegetable oils which caused his problems in the first place.

I can't help but feel sorry for the guy--all the steaks, ribs, sausages, pulled pork, lobsters, shrimp, butter, etc, that he is choosing juice instead of, thinking that it is healthier.

Oh well. That's why I am getting the word out.

[Cliff Hargrave]

I wouldn't say he fell afoul of radical vegans. It isn't a lifestyle, it's a "re-boot." I have seen the movie and nothing in it says anything about being a vegan or never eating meat again. It's about getting off processed foods and the typical American donut-cheeseburger-pizza-soda lifestyle. After the "re-boot" both of the guys basically went to eating vegetables and meat.

As far as fiber, I actually think he should have smoothied at least one of those drinks every day or every other day, just to keep things moving well.

I'm gonna try it. I will post some results for comparison to the fat-butter-animal flesh diet. I have been leaning more towards the Gracie diet and this should be a good kick-off for it. I'll do it right through the holidays to, that should be fun!

[Jonathan Randall]

As far as fiber, I actually think he should have smoothied at least one of those drinks every day or every other day, just to keep things moving well.

Regardless of any debate regarding the best method to use to do what this man did (correcting the damages to his body bad diet and lack of exercise had done), I think his perseverance and eventual success is an inspiration to all of us.

Right now, I'm in the 11th week of my own "reboot"; although mine had mostly to do with getting myself back into shape by aerobic and resistance training, so this story really helps. Thank you for posting it Cliff.

Now, to the drink part: about 6-7 years ago I did the smoothie thing, and I made myself very sick, very fast, probably by overloading on rich greens, so I'm not going to try this. However; I do think a smoothie mix of (not necessarily in the same drink itself, just alternating ingredients) of WHOLE fruit, vegetables, etc. can do a lot for a person - certainly as compared to the type of processed food, HFCS and preservative ladened, diet most get in Western countries today. Juicing, by itself, probably less so, imho. However; I would probably want to add nuts and unprocessed chicken or turkey or even beef to my diet.

[Cliff Hargrave]

One good thing about smoothies or juicing, is that some folks don't eat veggies at all, and that would give them an opportunity to get some in their diet.

[Rasputin]

If you are truly curious, get a pre-and-post bloodwork done, including a VAP LDL particle size, Free-T3 and T4, and Testosterone, and see how it affects your body from the inside out. Science!

[Rasputin]

Apparently, according to Netflix, I only made it 29 minutes into the movie.

http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Fa...?trkid=2361637

Not sure if I can make myself watch the rest of it. I remember yelling at the screen a lot while watching it.

I went back and started watching it were I left off. Now I remember why i was yelling at the screen.

http://www.amazon.com/Eat-Live-Amazi...9780601&sr=8-1

The Doctor who is advising him to partake of the juice fast is Joel Fuhrman, author of "Eat to Live". While his diet is not entirely vegan, it STRONGLY paints a picture condemning animal products as disease-causing, especially saturated fats, which is a shame because studies have proven recently that he is way off base. We simply function better on a high fat (especially saturated), low-carbohydrate ratio, once you kick the sugar addiction.

Any improvements in cholesterol can be masked by the fact that LDL has been skewed towards small, dense, atherosclerotic particles, which even in cases where total cholesterol has come down, still increase heart attack risk. You need a particle size test to be certain.

I will watch the rest of the movie tomorrow when I get time. It's simply too late tonight for me to get it done. In the meantime, however, I still maintain that overall health and well-being, independent of weight loss, is best pursued not through drinking all your meals (which does not reflect the natural diet of any primate, let alone Humans) but through eating as much as you like of:

Grassfed and pastured animals, their organs, and their fat
Wild-caught cold water fish
Green leafy and colorful vegetables, using a fork and not a straw
Hard spring water
Berries and low-sugar fruits
Eggs
And, if you can tolerate it, high-fat dairy (raw is best).

I do wish you the best of luck on your fast, however, Cliff. You seem to be already in pretty great shape, so I am not sure what you are hoping will happen for you with this.

[Jonathan Randall]

Green leafy and colorful vegetables, using a fork and not a straw

Any idea how or whether dark green vegetables such as spinach leaves put into a smoothie can make somebody sick? I'm still wondering why I tanked so quickly doing that years ago.

[David Craik]

The horrendous flavor?

[Jonathan Randall]

The horrendous flavor?

It certainly was awful...

I've been doing some online research and I believe an excess of Vitamin E may have been the culprit. Goes to show that anything taken to extremes can be bad, lol.

Heck, I even threw wheat germ into it, which is high in Vitamin E as well. That was probably a worse oversight than forgetting my car registration...

[Cliff Hargrave]

I used to do apple juice, frozen banana, and spinach smoothie all the time.

The Gracie way of juicing:

[Rasputin]

Any idea how or whether dark green vegetables such as spinach leaves put into a smoothie can make somebody sick? I'm still wondering why I tanked so quickly doing that years ago.

Green leafy vegetables, especially spinach, carry quite a load of Oxalic Acid, which is easy to overdose on when eating raw foods:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxalic_acid

Oxalic acid can lead to kidney stones as well as mineral deficiency since it sequesters them, especially Iron. Cooking the leaves can greatly mitigate this, especially boiling, which leaches out the Oxalic acid.

Vitamin E would be an odd choice to finger for the sickness cause. Just how many pounds of spinach a day were you eating? That stuff gets expensive.

[Rasputin]

That poor lady in the movie. She was so hungry, and her husband kept waving all that junk under her nose and eating it in front of her.

Here's the skinny on fasting: I do it, myself, but I do it in a way which is not likely to cause muscle loss. This "juice fast" is virtually guaranteed to cause muscle loss, including heart muscle, due to the fact that it is high in sugar and low in protein. The body has discrete amino acid requirements, and if it does not get them, it catabolizes existing muscle stores to do so. In addition, unless you are drinking juice all day long, you are causing wide fluctuations in your blood sugar levels, in essence a prescription for reactive hypoglycemia, which it being hypocaloric only makes it worse. During the downswings, muscle catabolism is actually increased to make up for the low blood sugar levels, and not enough protein is being taken in to build it back up.

If you are going to fast, drinking juice or any source of sugar actually makes the effect worse than if you ate nothing at all. Fasting on nothing but water allows glucagon levels to remain high, which allows fat to be drawn out of your fat cells to supply both energy and glycerin for gluconeogenesis, which spares muscle stores. It also provides for an even blood sugar throughout the fasting period. Breaking ones' fast with meat allows the body to replenish the protein which was lost during that time. Plus, the ketones created and utilized during this time serve to replace up to 80% of the body's need for glucose, further sparing protein. Drinking sugar throughout the day ensures that no ketones will be created.

At least the main "faster" started off obese--he had enough fat stores to provide some fatty acids to his system for nourishment. The lady he was trying to help wasn't all that big to begin with. If she had just cut out all grains from her diet, even without removing the sugar and vegetable oils, she would probably have been fine.

[Cliff Hargrave]

How much sugar is in green vegetables? People on juice diets go into ketosis just like they do on on your repackaged Atkins diet.

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[Rasputin]

OK, I watched the rest of the movie. All nutritional differences aside, I do recommend it to anyone who is interested in nutrition or health. As I linked above, it is free to watch instantly on Netflix.

Good things:

A number of very unhealthy people turned their lives around. That was inspiring.
Even counting the cost of the juicer, it is still cheaper than the medicines it replaced.
Cutting out processed food, fast food, sugar, grains, and vegetable oils, and increasing their fresh vegetable intake worked wonders for their health.
Exercise is better for you than being sedentary, and the right exercise is even better. I agree with that.
It's too bad that Bear didn't start his regimen before his heart attack.

The bad:
Meat, eggs and animal fats did not cause their obesity. Removing them is likely counterproductive to good health.
One veiled message is that it once again comes down to "eat less, exercise more". I have covered my disagreement with this elsewhere.
Most people who attempt this will likely fail to complete even 10 days, as the body's drive to ward off starvation in the midst of plenty is nearly overwhelming.

[Jonathan Randall]

It's too bad that Bear didn't start his regimen before his heart attack.

Unfortunately, that is what it takes in many cases for an individual to embark upon life altering habits such as changing one's diet, exercising, and/or removing substances such as tobacco and alcohol (in excess) consumption from their life.

[Rasputin]

I meant to add earlier that another good thing about it was I might just be inspired to dig out my old juicer and start adding some juiced veggies to my normal meals. Kale, celery, broccoli, tomato, pepper, onions, radishes, who knows?

On second thought, maybe I'll just eat them as they are. I love fresh, raw vegetables, so it's not like it is a hardship. And this way I will get all the fiber, too.

One thing that the movie didn't show you was what a PITA it is to clean the juicer. It was the main reason I stopped using it, years ago.

[Cliff Hargrave]

Juicers do suck to clean...