Martial arts people are rarely "sport" people

[Erik]

...and not sitting on the sofa like Al Bundy.

He's now a BJJ black belt, I think under Rickson himself. Go figure.

[Webmaster]

He's now a BJJ black belt, I think under Rickson himself. Go figure.

I know, but he's the actor that played Al Bundy. Al Bundy is a fictional character that is the epitome of a has-been loser.

[Erik]

I know, but he's the actor that played Al Bundy. Al Bundy is a fictional character that is the epitome of a has-been loser.

I know what you meant. I should have posted the name Ed O'Neill.

I just think it's so cool, the Al Bundy face (at least) being a BJJ star.

(And Ewan McGregor going from Mark Renton to Obi Wan Kenobi. )

[Webmaster]

I know what you meant. I should have posted the name Ed O'Neill.

There is a rather big difference.

[gmtkd]

I remember the "free-thinker" that you describe sitting the bench a lot because they didn't listen to the coach, not excelling. I still had to respect and listen to my coach (teacher, master) and follow the guidelines of my school (organization).
~Rob

It's probably just me, but I think martial arts attracts people who are more likely than athletes in other sports to focus so much on proper form during a sports skill that they miss the fact that the point of the sports skill is to score a point.

I think martial arts has so much focus on using "proper form" during the skills that it can be lost that the point of a kick is to contact the opponent's scoring areas whereas no matter how picky a basketball coach is about the best way to perform a lay up, no one ever misses the fact that the goal of a lay up is to get the ball into the basket.

[Jonathan Randall]

It's probably just me, but I think martial arts attracts people who are more likely than athletes in other sports to focus so much on proper form during a sports skill that they miss the fact that the point of the sports skill is to score a point.

I think martial arts has so much focus on using "proper form" during the skills that it can be lost that the point of a kick is to contact the opponent's scoring areas whereas no matter how picky a basketball coach is about the best way to perform a lay up, no one ever misses the fact that the goal of a lay up is to get the ball into the basket.

I agree. Actually, I agree with both of you.

Also, as to the Webmaster's point about "steely-eyed" wannabe's, I couldn't agree more. Ads for new RSBD systems by former asthmatics, 90 lb. weaklings, etc. who overcame their deficiencies to become rock strong, feared experts of the martial arts system they promote - only 3 small payments of 29.95 - are really, really getting old.

Over the years, I've known a number of exceptionally gifted athletes who began martial arts study during their school years, continued their training and became instructors and sometimes school owners. There are also countless people like me (current asthmatic and unathletic eyeglass wearer) who gained increased physical coordination and confidence from martial arts practice - but do not see themselves as "steely-eyed" lethal weapons...

[rainesr]

It's probably just me, but I think martial arts attracts people who are more likely than athletes in other sports to focus so much on proper form during a sports skill that they miss the fact that the point of the sports skill is to score a point.

I think martial arts has so much focus on using "proper form" during the skills that it can be lost that the point of a kick is to contact the opponent's scoring areas whereas no matter how picky a basketball coach is about the best way to perform a lay up, no one ever misses the fact that the goal of a lay up is to get the ball into the basket.

This seems like a training issue reinforced by the instructor. If you perform a proper layup the ball will go into the basket, likewise a proper front kick will go through the target. In basketball, if I missed a layup and told the coach I missed due to proper form and it was a good layup maneuver I would sit the bench until I stopped being a moron. In martial arts if you pull that with a front kick you should get hit reasonably hard until you kick (or any technique) right. Where does that happen, almost nowhere. Instead your opponent performs another ineffective and inconsequential technique that scores a point or the student get verbal recognition for good form that didn't work.

It took me years to find a place where I would just get hit for acting stupid.

~Rob

[CEB]

You learn to fight by fighting.

[TonyU]

You learn to fight by fighting.

Absolutely! But sparring is not fighting. Different animals, although one can argue that sparring is the closest one will get to it.

Please don't anyone take this the wrong way, but most here do not have a clue what a real fight or self defense situation is where losing means not making it back home to your family! THAT'S A GOOD THING. That tells you what kind of world we live in. Of course, there are exceptions, like the gentleman that has to worry about home invasions.

If training in martial arts is a sport endeavor for any you, so be it. Enjoy.

[CEB]

No sparring isn't fighting. It isn't close unless someone really gets pissed off. You learn to fight by fighting.... period.

That is why I don't ... won't .... will never teach anything called 'self defense'. With my background, my instructors etc... I am probably more qualified than 85% of the teachers who post here to do so.

It is really hard to change a person's nature. They either have have it in them or they don't.

"Martial Artist" generally don't seem to have a clue.

[Jonathan Randall]

No sparring isn't fighting. It isn't close unless someone really gets pissed off. You learn to fight by fighting.... period.

That is why I don't ... won't .... will never teach anything called 'self defense'. With my background, my instructors etc... I am probably more qualified than 85% of the teachers who post here to do so.

It is really hard to change a person's nature. They either have have it in them or they don't.

"Martial Artist" generally don't seem to have a clue.

I wish more instructors were that honest.

I do have to quarrel with your 85 percent figure, though - on this forum. Any other forum, probably 99 percent would be more accurate. Here, most active posters/instructors have serious backgrounds. BTW, I don't teach...

I saw my own martial arts training as useful against the common, run-of-the-mill bully (which it was). Against serious violent crime, no, I never deluded myself - even though I had my share of deluded classmates and instructors (who I left). Sorry to say, but the kenpo guys were the worst. Hands are deadly weapons and all that crap. Surprisingly, an ATA instructor I had in the early-1980's was the most honest about the limitations of MA training - particularly what we were doing.

[CEB]

I am pretty comfortable with my off the cuff math, although I do punch like a sissy.

[Jonathan Randall]

I am pretty comfortable with my off the cuff math, although I do punch like a sissy.

I was thinking that the current (active, long term) posters who are presently instructors, iirc, are Cliff Hargrave, yourself, Tony Urena, Robert Carver. All know their business.

In any case, I get your point.

[Jonathan Randall]

I was thinking that the current (active, long term) posters who are presently instructors, iirc, are Cliff Hargrave, yourself, Tony Urena, Robert Carver. All know their business.

In any case, I get your point.

Forgot Don Roley. Sorry, Don.

[gmtkd]

When I started to study RBSD, and was able to understand sparring is a game where we score points with kicks and punches, and bears no relationship to self-defense, is when I finally figured out how to play the sport of taekwondo sparring.

[TonyU]

I am pretty comfortable with my off the cuff math, although I do punch like a sissy.

Come on Ed. You can stop with the self deprecation. I've had the privilege of meeting and getting to train with you. You're no slouch.

[TonyU]

I was thinking that the current (active, long term) posters who are presently instructors, iirc, are Cliff Hargrave, yourself, Tony Urena, Robert Carver. All know their business.

In any case, I get your point.

Well since we're naming names then I would have to add Barry McConnell, Rory Miller, and David Craik. While they may not be as prolific when they do post I listen, er read.

[Tripitaka of AA]

I write here all the time, but if anyone ever made the mistake of thinking I know about violence/self-defence/training/hard-work/etc., clearly hasn't been reading what I wrote. I'm just glad I get to read what the experienced people have done, can do, would do.

[CEB]

You may be a the 2nd coming of Samson if God forbid you are put in a violent situation. I truly believe you don't know. I'm sure there is probably research on this topic although I'm not concerned with learning facts on this ..... but I think the fight or flight reactions are pretty much automatic and not learned behavior.

I don't want to go into my small sampling of war stories plus they are not as good examples as my car wreck stories. I don;'t know if a lot of it had to do with my state of mind back then. Back in my 20's I was not in a happy place. There were a lot of times I really didn't care if I lived or died. I didn't have much going for me until I finally settled down got a day job and found a good woman. Maybe I wouldn't react the same now in crisis situation because I have things to actually live for .... I have no idea.

But one afternoon I was driving about 70 MPH on a 2 lane road in a Chevy Citation and blew a front tire I ended up weaving all over the highway. I ended up doing a 360 across the road and ended hit a tree on the off the opposite side of the road. Things went into slow motion and I was sure I was going to steer my way out of it .... but I guess I didn't. LOL! Time really felt like it slowed down. If the process of wrecking that Chevy lasted as long as it felt I must have driven 5 miles down road totally out of control. I didn't the whole thing probably lasted 50-60 feet. I remember feeling calm at the time. ... Now after the car stopped moving I got scared and about crapped my pants. Good thing no one else was on that road coming head on I would have probably killed someone.

The fights, attempted assault and the attempted robbery were pretty much a similar kind of experience. Just way more chaos and the memoriers are not clear. Basically things happen then after it is over you almost crap your pants. I guess adreanline dump has a lot to do with the post event feelings.

Past performance does not indicate future results and if there were to be a next time I might just stand there and pee pee my pants and beg for mercy. Mickey said the worst thing a fighter can do is get civilized.

[Eliz]

It's probably just me, but I think martial arts attracts people who are more likely than athletes in other sports to focus so much on proper form during a sports skill that they miss the fact that the point of the sports skill is to score a point.

I think martial arts has so much focus on using "proper form" during the skills that it can be lost that the point of a kick is to contact the opponent's scoring areas whereas no matter how picky a basketball coach is about the best way to perform a lay up, no one ever misses the fact that the goal of a lay up is to get the ball into the basket.

I do not know, Marcy. Maybe Martial Arts coaches are overwhelmingly more technical and spend too much time stressing technique over competition. I have seen as you describe but I have also been involved with a few schools that really get the balance.

It really comes down to the style of coaching

The flip side of the coin are the coaches that stress NO technique and 100% kill, fight, win. Their competitors are like half crazed bull dogs on the mats.

There is a middle ground. The trick is getting a balanced coaching staff