Toshindo Does Not Equal Bujinkan

[Don Roley]

In response to a recent e-mail forwarded to me, but not the only one I have seen or received, I wrote the following blog.

http://www.coloradospringsninjutsu.c..._Bujinkan.html

I take responsibility for it. No one else is to blame for what I say.

But something has to be said. A lot of well meaning Toshindo students are confused as to why Bujinkan members are keeping them at arm's length. In many cases, the Toshindo students are being told that the Bujinkan members refusing them are doing so for less than honorable reasons. The truth is, Stephen Hayes is an ex- student of the head of our art, Masaaki Hatsumi. Hatsumi has 'requested' (in Japanese fashion) that we don't try to learn things from ex-students of his or get too close to them. And some of us know the rude things that happened that caused the break.

I hope this helps, and draws some of the hate do me instead of the guys who are getting requests to have joint events and the like.

This should get interesting. Loud, nasty and full of accusations against me, but interesting.

[sean_stonehart]

Liked it.

[Tony Dismukes]

Some random thoughts...

On the question of extreme low stances - back when I was training in the Bujinkan I got pretty much the exact explanation as you give from Shawn Havens, who was a shodan under Steve Hayes at the time. If Steve is now professing ignorance of why such stances would be taught in training, I suspect it's more a matter of spin to justify his new approach than actual cluelessness.

I certainly understand why Hatsumi and his senior students would be annoyed at Steve's exaggeration of his training in the Bujinkan. I do think this is a case of Hatsumi having to deal with a monster he helped to create. Hatsumi chose to award 10th dan rank to Hayes. You and I might understand that 10th dan in the Bujinkan means something very different from what it means in just about any other art, but it was competely predictable that this would be widely seen as a statement by Hatsumi that Hayes had reached a very high level of knowledge and skill in the Bujinkan arts.

(I'm also given to understand that the Ninjutsu: History and Tradition, although published under Hatsumi's name, was actually written by Hayes and thus contains a number of inaccuracies. If so, then by authorizing the use of his name Hatsumi shares the responsibility for the spread of that misinformation.)

The whole philosophy of "the head of your organization behaved badly towards the head of my organization, therefore I can't associate with you because it would be disrespectful" isn't one I care to share. I prefer to deal with individuals on the basis of their own behavior. You use the analogy of "would you go out for some beers with a guy who called your wife a *****"? Well, no, but I wouldn't have an objection to spending time with someone who was the student of a student of someone who called my wife a *****, as long as that individual didn't behave badly. (Also as much as I appreciate all of my teachers, none of them has the relationship with me that I share with my wife.)

On the whole discussion of what is "legit", I'm not so much into the binary all-or-nothing approach. BJJ has no equivalent to the Menkyo Kaiden certification, but it's generally accepted that someone who holds a black belt in the art is a legitimate instructor. Nevertheless, if you are training under a purple belt I would still say that you are still training BJJ. You may not learn as much as you would training under a good black belt, but you're still learning BJJ.

What I would ask of a "legit" teacher is honesty about exactly what training (and certification) you actually have. How long did you train? How often? With who? If you say you have 10 years of training in the Bujinkan, do you mean
1) 1 year living in Japan training with the shihans twice a week, followed by 9 years visiting once a year for 3 days at a time or
2) 10 years living in Japan training with the shihans 5 days per week or
3) 10 years training in the US learning from a guy who trained under Jack Hoban 15 years ago and who hasn't furthered his own training since?

If I know what training you have, I can make a preliminary judgment on how much you are likely to have to offer me as an instructor. This is particularly useful in cases like the Bujinkan where rank certification is only very loosely connected to the amount of training someone has had.

[Don Roley]

Some random thoughts...

On the question of extreme low stances - back when I was training in the Bujinkan I got pretty much the exact explanation as you give from Shawn Havens, who was a shodan under Steve Hayes at the time. If Steve is now professing ignorance of why such stances would be taught in training, I suspect it's more a matter of spin to justify his new approach than actual cluelessness.

The use of low stances is very taxing on the students. I have heard he has even shortened the typical class from what I am used to in the Bujinkan in order to make it easier for people and appeal to the less devoted. Maybe he gave up on the low stances for the same reason.

(I'm also given to understand that the Ninjutsu: History and Tradition, although published under Hatsumi's name, was actually written by Hayes and thus contains a number of inaccuracies. If so, then by authorizing the use of his name Hatsumi shares the responsibility for the spread of that misinformation.)

From what I understand, Hatsumi was asked to allow the translation of some of what he wrote into English. It was only afterwards that it became known that some other stuff was thrown in. Whatever you do, don't try to get Hatsumi to autograph a copy if you want to keep him in a good mood.