Does anyone know what kyu means?

**TEA** · 07-06-2006, 11:36

Originally Posted by P Goldsbury

So 'dan' is really the same as 'kyu' and a more interesting question is why there are two concepts used in defining rank in certain martial arts and not just one or the other.

As the examples given might have suggested, the answer might lie in the nuances of the compound terms using the characters. It seems that in many compounds 'kyu' has the meaning of class (= a group), whereas 'dan' has the nuance of step or terrace. However, the answer lies partly in the nuance of the characters themselves, but for this one would need to look up a good kanji dictionary and note the development of the meaning (and also check with the literature cited).

Best regards to all,

If it wasn't for the use of the terms for non-MA ranking (e.g. igo, shoji, sake and shuzan), then I would suggest that perhaps it was influenced by the Japanese adoption of Western military institutions after the Meiji Restoration. In other words, kyu ranks parrellel enlisted ranks and dan ranks parellel commisioned officers' ranks. After all, the whole concept of MA ranks was developed by Kano Sensei after the Meiji Restoration, so perhaps he was looking to the newly adapted military ranking system as an example. Of course, a good book on Kano might be able to answer that question.

Peter, do those non-MA grading systems also make use of both dan and kyu, or is it a matter of one being used rather than another?

**Crusader Rabbit** · 07-06-2006, 15:52

You might try reading Mind over Muscle : Writings from the Founder of Judo by Jigoro Kano. It is selected writings by the founder of Kodokan Judo and edited by Naoki Murata, curator of the Kodokan Judo Museum in Tokyo. There is also an excellent biography, The Father of Judo: A Biography of Jigoro Kano by Brian Wilson. Both of these include details regarding Kano sensei's reasoning and the history behind his adoption of the kyu and dan ranking system for Kodokan Judo. The kyu and dan ranking system is not related to Western military rankings and the objectives are not equivalent. The fact that the kyu and dan ranking system was created by Kano sensei and later adapted to other martial arts styles is why some use it and some don't.

**TEA** · 07-06-2006, 16:07

So, in a nutshell, what was Kano's reasoning for creating a two tiered ranking system? Also, out of curiosity, how many kyu did Kano first have?

WRT some styles having more kyu grades than others, does anyone suspect that there is a correlation between number of kyu grades and frequency of rank tests? When I started TKD, there were 8 kyu/gyup grades (white, yellow, three levels of green and three levels of brown) and we only had rank tests twice a year. Now, there area lot more kyu/gyup grades, but testing is more frequent. Money making scheme, or attempt to motivate students through goal attainment?

**Doni Pulley** · 10-25-2006, 19:59

children please!

**Harlan** · 10-26-2006, 07:25

What an odd thread to resurface.

**skatergirl** · 12-06-2008, 18:47

The most entertaining part of this entire thread was Mr. Mclean's grammar.

**cejames** · 05-22-2012, 16:55

From the tangorin.com site for kanji/kana

Kyu [級] class; grade; rank; school class, grade.

which is kind of interesting as the DAN kanji also speaks to

Dan [段] grade; rank; level

Regards,

Charles J.

**Tripitaka of AA** · 05-22-2012, 18:45

I honestly thought this thread had died and gone to thread heaven. Raised in 2003 and then resurrected in 2006... Six years on and could there be life in the old thing after all?

Of course, there are people reading it now who have never seen it before, and they may well be learning something from it, so bringing it back is not all bad. Those who contributed include some of the more colourful characters that appeared on this and other forums (particularly back in 2006)... nice to see such a nice bunch of names again. I think the discerning reader will have no problem in deciding which definitions have credibility, particularly those presented by members who have provided reference sources that can be checked.

**ngkungfu** · 03-14-2013, 09:17

Originally Posted by Crusader Rabbit

I've heard many, many different people explain how white belts were worn by novices and after years of practice became grimy and dark in color. According to them, this is why black belts are now worn to show senior rank and experience in the martial arts.

That story is a complete myth with no basis whatsoever in historical fact. Just because many other people sincerely believe in this mythological tale about the origins of the black belt doesn't make it any less fake.

Heck, I know a lot of people who believe professional wrestling is real fighting and the WWF is serious about sports competition, too.

So what are you saying? Wrestling isn't real? Next you'll be telling me that there is no Easter bunny or no Santa Clause or tooth fairy. Stop spreading these lies or I'm going to tell my mommy on you.

**sean_stonehart** · 03-14-2013, 09:32

Originally Posted by ngkungfu

So what are you saying? Wrestling isn't real? Next you'll be telling me that there is no Easter bunny or no Santa Clause or tooth fairy. Stop spreading these lies or I'm going to tell my mommy on you.

2004?? Seriously... Don hasn't been year in years. Likelyhood of an answer... slim to none.

Thread is closed for practical purposes.