Who is Hastumi, Ashida Kim, Steven K. Hayes, Andrew Adams, Robert Bussey

**Hardcore Fighter** · 06-11-2003, 13:10

I dont know much about ninjas except what I see in magazines and I heard that Ninjas are comming back in realism and not all those fake masters in america and europe and stuff. Like the koga school and iga schools are the real ninjas. Is that true?

Who is Ashidak Kim and Hatsumi and Steven K. Hayes and Andrew Adams and Robert Bussey.

I have seen books advertised by Ashida Kim and one by Andrew Adams I think im not sure if his last name is Adams. Also Steven K. hayes is an american ninja or something and has books out. Are these guys real or fake?

What about Robert Bussey? Does he claim to be ninjitsu or is he just a combat person? I have a training video by him on combat m anuvers which is pretty cool.

Who is the oldest TRUE grandmaster Ninja out there? How do you get to train with REAL ninjas and become a REAL ninja and not take some copycat art called Taijutsu or whatever.

What is The Black Dragon Fighting society?

Dude can people PLEASE answer all of my questions so I can understand what the real ninjas are?

And is Sho Kasugi a real ninja master or does he just do it in movies? He is pretty cool.

**jabonn** · 06-11-2003, 14:08

What is The Black Dragon Fighting society?

do a search for Counte Dante. You will find results for a rock group out of San Fran - the results you want are "the world's deadliest man or deadliest man alive"

I'll let the Ninja address the rest of you questions.

**Hardcore Fighter** · 06-12-2003, 10:56

That did not answer anything that I was asking.

**Shinma** · 06-12-2003, 10:59

Simply search the threads they have all been discussed here numerous times.

**Hardcore Fighter** · 06-13-2003, 13:11

I dont want to I want someone to just answer me right now so I dont have to search.

**Ramirez** · 06-13-2003, 13:41

Hey Hardcore, I'll discuss Hatsumi and Hayes, the other ones you can find on other boards with an easy search. The type of strong opinions you will hear about Ashida Kim is usually discouraged on Budoseek.

The ninjutsu practioners can correct any errors/misconceptions that I have.

As far as I know Hatsumi is the head of the Bujinkan, and is considered legitimate by most ninjutsu practioners. Stephen Hayes was a student of his who popularized the art in the early to mid 80s in the U.S. I have heard they had a falling out and I think Hayes has his own organization now, I am not sure if the still calls it ninjutsu/ninpo or he calls it by another name, a Google search will easily lead you to his site.

**Jay Bell** · 06-13-2003, 14:12

Actually, even though Stephen Hayes has his Toshindo now, he is still very much tied to Hatsumi sensei.

Hardcore...please refer to the archived posts in this forum. I'm sure that more then enough of your questions have already been answered. No reason to have people re-type information...

**sreisin547** · 06-15-2003, 14:52

Originally posted by Jay Bell
Actually, even though Stephen Hayes has his Toshindo now, he is still very much tied to Hatsumi sensei.

No, Hayes is not tied to Hatsumi and hasn't been for quite some time...that is from Hatsumi himself.

**Jay Bell** · 06-15-2003, 18:37

Stephen Hayes still takes annual trips to Japan to train with Hatsumi sensei. He often takes groups of students as well. To this day in the Toshindo organization, you can also obtain rank in the Bujinkan. For that, there would have to be a tie to Hatsumi sensei for rank certificates, etc.

**Hardcore Fighter** · 06-16-2003, 15:31

Does ninjutsu use a belt system? What kind?

Okay I read an article about kogu and iga and it was talking about tons of people who used the masters to get high ranks and it made a joke out of ninjutsu. So is steven k hayes one of those "masters" who got 10th degrees in 10 years and then left to america to act cool and make money and make a joke out of ninjas?

I heard the ninjas are trying to make a comback and they told the other people who claimed to be ninjas to call their art another name.

**Hardcore Fighter** · 06-17-2003, 13:18

okay so I searched and found information.

Ashida Kim is a fruad and Robert Bussey also is and so is Steven K. Hayes.

I own a video of Robert Bussey and he seems pretty good at his combat techniques, but I guess he is not a real ninja.

Hatsumi is a real ninja grandmaster.

What about Andrew Adams? Who is he?

I guess you should stay away from any art or federation that talks about joining their team through the mail. Right?

**Jay Bell** · 06-17-2003, 13:24

Ashida - Fraud
Bussey - Trained legitimately with Hatsumi sensei for a short while, many years ago
Hayes - Legit

**jabonn** · 06-17-2003, 15:44

What do you mean Ashida Kim is a fraud? I spend good money on his romance novels and training material. I even got a Dan Ranking certificate from the purchase of one of his books.

If he is such a fraud - why do you take him up on his $10,000 challange?

HAHAHAHA

**heretic888** · 06-17-2003, 16:22

Hah! Comedy.

**Hardcore Fighter** · 06-18-2003, 09:26

Ya that Ashida Kim guy is weird and has titles like "Ninja mind controle." yeah right.
What the heck are occult guards? So he is a white guy from the USA? Do you think he tries to be serious or he makes the books for fun as a joke and make cash and made up a fake japanese name to be anonymouse?
Jabonn so how much money did that book cost with the dan certificate and black dragon fighting society membership? As a member what do you do with it? Do you go and train with ashida kim and go on secret ninja missions? How many members are there?

So Steven Hayes is legit? So he is not one of the westerners who used the japanese ninja masters for rank promotions to go back to the USA and claim to be a grandmaster after only training 10 years and making tons of money? I heard thats what Robert Bussey did.

What about Andrew Adams who made that Ninja The Invisible Assassin book? Who is he?

**jabonn** · 06-18-2003, 09:51

Jabonn so how much money did that book cost with the dan certificate and black dragon fighting society membership? As a member what do you do with it? Do you go and train with ashida kim and go on secret ninja missions? How many members are there?

by Hardcore Fighter.

Well first I am not a Ninja nor do I play one on T.V.. As far as the book, I purchased it as I would a comic book or other novelity item. I forgot how much I have paid for it. You can find that answer at Ashida Kim. I do not belong to the Black Dragon Fighting Society - however I do enjoy reading and collecting Count Dante stuff.

I do not train nor go on secret missions with Ashida Kim, sorry. You should write Ashida directly or post to his forum and get the information directly form the source. I have never met a member of his BDFS, but then again I don't know any Ninja what so ever.

Are you wanting to train in Nippo/Ninjustu?

**Hardcore Fighter** · 06-18-2003, 11:00

Dude all of that ashida kim stuff I said was a joke.

Anyway I train in Taekwondo but I wouldnt mind trying out ninjutsu under a real ninja. not a fake one.

**Sorros** · 07-29-2003, 20:42

This is a post I posted on another sight, but it applies to this sight also
evidently you still suffer from the blurry eyed sensie woship.
Its a funny thing,mystysis, magic, ritual, incantations like Shinken Haramitsu Daikomyo.
There all the same just a play on words.
My facts come from personal experience and black belts that travel and train with Hatsumi at his dojo. They tell me the japanese students laugh at the way Master Hatsumi hands out dan rankings to Americans. 3rd and 4th dan rankings to Americans with money that pay for themthat don't have the skills of a first dan.
At the tia kia One high ranking black belt that has trained with Hatsumi for years, Told me he could not believe the green belts he was promoting to black.
Oh and that deception thing in battle, read Master hatsumi's book, The Grand Masters Book of Ninja Training he tells a different story.
Master Hatsumi makes his money besides selling ranks, he is the Japanese equivalent of a Chiropractor with a little Asian medicine thrown in. He also writes childrens books.
Wake up and look around were all human
Maybe if your nice I'll tell you about Master Hatsumi's connection to the japanes Yakuza (mob)

Sorros
I am not politically correct and, I don't pull punches

**Jason H** · 07-29-2003, 20:56

Sorros,

You need to include your real full name with every post here on Budoseek, as the forum rules state.

**heretic888** · 07-30-2003, 08:18

This is a post I posted on another sight, but it applies to this sight also
evidently you still suffer from the blurry eyed sensie woship.
Its a funny thing,mystysis, magic, ritual, incantations like Shinken Haramitsu Daikomyo.
There all the same just a play on words.
My facts come from personal experience and black belts that travel and train with Hatsumi at his dojo. They tell me the japanese students laugh at the way Master Hatsumi hands out dan rankings to Americans. 3rd and 4th dan rankings to Americans with money that pay for themthat don't have the skills of a first dan.
At the tia kia One high ranking black belt that has trained with Hatsumi for years, Told me he could not believe the green belts he was promoting to black.
Oh and that deception thing in battle, read Master hatsumi's book, The Grand Masters Book of Ninja Training he tells a different story.
Master Hatsumi makes his money besides selling ranks, he is the Japanese equivalent of a Chiropractor with a little Asian medicine thrown in. He also writes childrens books.
Wake up and look around were all human
Maybe if your nice I'll tell you about Master Hatsumi's connection to the japanes Yakuza (mob)

Heh.... I guess Shadow Hunter has a brother.