Who is Hastumi, Ashida Kim, Steven K. Hayes, Andrew Adams, Robert Bussey

**Kreth** · 12-26-2005, 12:56

Originally Posted by TonyU

Mmm, I normaly don't get into these type of duscussions, but 0311 is infantry.
Actually I believe (Robert correct me if I'm wrong), 0300 is infantry with 0311 being specifically rifleman and 0321 is Recon.

Well, Ron claims to be Force Recon. Although, the last time we had this discussion, he couldn't tell me the unloaded weight of an M16A2, or his First General Order, two things that are drilled into every recruit's head from day one in boot camp.

**Jeff C.** · 12-26-2005, 13:36

Ron, I noticed on the E-Budo thread that you chose not to post your 214 because of receiving a "General" discharge, for "medical reasons." Before moving on, I need to point out to our other readers that the medical reason has nothing to do with the "general" nature of your discharge. There is NOT a medical reason for discharge that dictates a "general" discharge. The reason for discharge may be for medical reasons, but the characterization of service (i.e. general, honorable, etc) is based upon the service record, NOT the medical reason for discharge. Unless of course you were discharge for illegal drug use/abuse, which may be considered "medical" by a very far stretch of the regulation, when in fact is is classified as "acts or patterns of misconduct."

So, your conduct must have been a little less than "sterling," thus the general nature of your discharge.

In spite of that, you could scan and post a copy of your 214 with your SSN, reason for discharge, authority, and characterization of service blacked-out. That would IMMEDIATELY end the accusations against you that you are lying about your military service.

However, keep in mind that if you are lying, and attempt to forge a 214, any 214 you post can easily and legally be checked for authenticity. I am not accusing you of being a liar; I am only saying that if you are, certainly do not forge a document that could get you prosecuted, because of some nonsense on the internet. Better to just 'fess up or let it ride, rather than put yourself at further legal risk.

Jeff Cook

**TonyU** · 12-26-2005, 14:51

Originally Posted by Kreth

Well, Ron claims to be Force Recon. Although, the last time we had this discussion, he couldn't tell me the unloaded weight of an M16A2, or his First General Order, two things that are drilled into every recruit's head from day one in boot camp.

Well Jeff,
I for one will tell you tha I have forgotten them since it's been 21 years since boot camp, but I can pull out my EST book with all my notes and look it up.
I can also pull out my DD-214's that tell you I have been discharged due to medical under Honorable conditions.

**Jeff C.** · 12-26-2005, 17:57

Tony,

"Honorable," or "under honorable conditions?" "Under honorable conditions" is a General Discharge.

Are you saying that you received a General because of medical conditions? If that is the case I STRONGLY RECOMMEND that you submit to the review board to get that changed, unless of course you did something wrong to warrant a General.

(By the way, not sure which Jeff your post was directed to.)

Jeff Cook

**ghosted** · 12-26-2005, 18:10

Jeff C.,

I never denied I wasn't the best marine & had "black marks." Even when I joined the Army back in 2001 I had 3 Art 15 with less then 4 years. Most of the paper work is in a storage building that can't be opened because of snow. I think some of the army stuff is around here. Personally I don't feel I need to prove anything to anyone. If no one likes it, fine my me talk all the trash you like.

Later,
Ron

**TonyU** · 12-26-2005, 18:13

See now I'm all confused. That's what happens when I butt my nose in.
So I went upstairs to look at my DD-214, except now I can't find it. Figures, any way I was discharged and came home one week prior to graduating Marine Corps boot camp for medical reasons (asthmatic). As I remember it they also called it an Entry Level Seperation.
Does that make sense?

Now on that note, I reenlisted in the United States Naval Reserve, as a SeaBee, in July '93 and was Honorably Discharged on July '01. I have that certificate hanging right here in my home office right behind me., but we don't discuss that one too much.

**Jeff C.** · 12-26-2005, 18:46

Tony, an entry level separation is "Uncharacterized," as opposed to Honorable, General, etc.

Ron,

I was not talking trash. I was giving you advice. And as far as I can see, no one here was talking trash to you, but were asking questions which you apparently think are "trashy" somehow.

Jeff Cook

**Don Roley** · 12-26-2005, 18:46

Originally Posted by ghosted

Jeff C.,

I never denied I wasn't the best marine & had "black marks." Even when I joined the Army back in 2001 I had 3 Art 15 with less then 4 years. Most of the paper work is in a storage building that can't be opened because of snow. I think some of the army stuff is around here. Personally I don't feel I need to prove anything to anyone. If no one likes it, fine my me talk all the trash you like.

Later,
Ron

So, you won't prove anything about your military service? You can't even prove you were in the Marines at all? And of course, all the stuff about your teachers you are not going to try to prove. Or, for that matter, how you claim to have been taught Shotokan since age 2.......

You see, we don't treat folks like you, Ashida Kim and Bruce Calkins like we do because of 'politics' as you try to portray. We do it because you come on boards with your flawed knowledge of ninjutsu and meager experience in martial arts, full of claims and stories, and when asked for proof you get nasty and tell us you don't have to prove anything.

**ghosted** · 12-27-2005, 07:54

Don,

My mom taught me shotokan at two, in our home. She isn't an instructor besides what she taught me, she never taught. As for won't prove my miliraty service, I don't feel the need to prove anything to you. You said get my facts straight when I said that the Bujinkan Ninjutsu Schools couldn't be proven. We have all read the Dr. Karl Friday thing right?
Plus I've spoken with other X-kan members who have told me similiar. It's a proven fact that ninjutsu is nearly non-existant as a documented art in Japan. Hatsumi has never proven his lineage to the Nihon Kobudo Shinkokai or the Nihon Kobudo Kyokai. He has failed to prove his lineage or allow indipendent researchers to see his scrolls & such. Why?
You talk about a proven art, yet nothing is proven. I know how I was explained to by Sensei Omoto. For his part, ninjutsu is the art of thieves & peasants. Thats what he told me thats how I accept it. I don't need the lineage an art or proof of a person's expoits to learn. And, it seems the only people who demand proof are those who want to prove you wrong. So why bother proving anything? Because you say so? That means nothing to me.

But since my way of thinking is all wrong, then why not explain it me. Instead of telling me how I know nothing. What are trying to prove?

Jeff,

The talking trash was more directed in general, not to you. I'm sorry if I came of as an attacking you.

Later,
Ron

**Kreth** · 12-27-2005, 11:36

Originally Posted by ghosted

I know how I was explained to by Sensei Omoto.

Your Japanese instructor never told you that the proper term of address would be "Omoto Sensei"?

So, tell us about your time in the Marines, Ron. Where did you go to boot camp? What was your platoon number? Where did you go to ITS/SOI? Where where you stationed after your Recon indoc test? Who was the Commandant of the Marine Corps during your time in? Surely you can answer these off the top of your head...

**Don Roley** · 12-27-2005, 16:44

Originally Posted by ghosted

You talk about a proven art, yet nothing is proven. I know how I was explained to by Sensei Omoto. For his part, ninjutsu is the art of thieves & peasants. Thats what he told me thats how I accept it.

So go ahead and prove that this Omoto guy really exists. The most you ahve told us is that he lives near in Canada near the American border. That is a really strange way of putting it and makes me think that you have never even been to Canada. If I said that someone lived in America and lived near the Canadian border, everyone would point out that there is a lot of area in that description. I could be talking about New York or Washington state.

Hatsumi will show you proof that he trained and the documents he has. He will be totally honest about where he has been and who he has trained with. He will give you the facts as best he can and back up what he says. You and people like Ashida Kim on the other hand make strange claims and then refuse to give proof and that is why you are treated as a fraud.

So, go ahead and give some way for us to prove that Omoto really existed.

**heretic888** · 12-28-2005, 09:47

Originally Posted by ghosted

You said get my facts straight when I said that the Bujinkan Ninjutsu Schools couldn't be proven. We have all read the Dr. Karl Friday thing right?

Actually, last time I read up on this stuff, Dr. Friday's position concerning the Bujinkan ryuha is that they're "probably koryu".

Originally Posted by ghosted

I know how I was explained to by Sensei Omoto. For his part, ninjutsu is the art of thieves & peasants.

In other words, he straight-up lied to your face....

Unless, of course, you think families like the Hattori, Oe, Fujibayashi, Momochi, and Mochizuki were "thieves & peasants"??

Laterz.

**ghosted** · 12-29-2005, 10:47

Originally Posted by heretic888

In other words, he straight-up lied to your face....

Unless, of course, you think families like the Hattori, Oe, Fujibayashi, Momochi, and Mochizuki were "thieves & peasants"??

Laterz.

There are three places ninjutsu is credited with "possibly" coming from.

1) Samurai-
Being that ninjutsu was only an aspect of a larger bujutsu, meaning that only certain samurai, or "high ranking" samurai where taught "ninjutsu." Hattori Hanzo was also a samurai I belive

2) Yamabushi- The ever famous mountain warrior priests, basicly a bunch of Shinto monks learned or developed the art in a vacum where their religion came under attack & having no army they had to develop methods of combat that relied on guarrilla warefare. Much as the Roma have for thousands of years, the Native Americans had done, or any culture that has developed over shadowed by the threat of a larger stronger force.
Where the roma (gyspies) not feared for their "mythological" connection with evil forrest spirits? You bet, however, they also allowed & incouraged that. Ninjutsu is a modern term for guerrilla warfare, since even in the bujutsu ryuha which contained "ninjutsu" it used a different name then ninjutsu or shinobijutsu.

3) Kobuki Theater- The imfamous idea that ninjutsu was created as a system, & influenced by the "myth of the ninja" in modern Japan. Which I don't much buy myself.

**Kreth** · 12-29-2005, 12:02

You overlooked my questions about your military career, Ron. Please review my post and answer them.

**Don Roley** · 12-29-2005, 18:11

Hell Kreth, he ignored all the calls for proof and answering questions! Now he is just trying to play like he knows the subject- when he does not.

**Kreth** · 12-30-2005, 00:20

I'm not surprised. He couldn't answer questions 5 years ago...

**heretic888** · 12-31-2005, 10:16

Originally Posted by ghosted

There are three places ninjutsu is credited with "possibly" coming from.

I wasn't asking for your speculations as to where ninjutsu may or may not have "possibly" came from....

I was specifically addressing the issue as to whether the families that historically made up the "ninja" groups in Iga and Koga and who passed on ninjutsu traditions from one generation to another --- families like the Hattori, Momochi, and Fujibayashi in Iga and the "53 families" in Koga --- are what you would consider to be "peasants & thieves".

I guess what I'm really trying to say is: don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.

Laterz.

**ghosted** · 12-31-2005, 12:14

Originally Posted by heretic888

I was specifically addressing the issue as to whether the families that historically made up the "ninja" groups in Iga and Koga and who passed on ninjutsu traditions from one generation to another --- families like the Hattori, Momochi, and Fujibayashi in Iga and the "53 families" in Koga --- are what you would consider to be "peasants & thieves".

I wouldn't know I never studied history in detail, & I most defiantly never met them. lol Seriously though, yes I would consider some of them "peasants & thieves." Allot of history, official history mind you, does display the ninja as terrorists, assassins & criminals. Remember allot of ninja were historically samurai as well, & a ronin was nothing more then a peasant with a sword in most cases. Even the acquisition of military records from one army for another is theft.

Infact after reading a book written by Hayes in the second paragraph of page 1 of "Mystic Arts of the Ninja" he explains how ninjutsu came from Yamabushi. And if I remember, yamabushi where often outcasts for society, who lived in the mountains, less then peasants. So no matter what recognition one may have gained at one time, your art became existent with peasants...

Later,
Ron