Where do they come from

**Jeff Burger** · 11-27-2003, 12:17

The new school opens next week and we have had open house / free classes for thec last 2 weeks.
In that short time I have had 3 people come in and want to teach there.
One just showed up in his gi and starting teaching people and telling then they were doing stuff wrong.
When I interjected he started his reply with " If Im going to teach you..."

Then there was Captain Aikido...nic named such because he just put on this swashbuckling attitude.
He didnt take no for answer for 30 minutes.

Then there was Ninja boy.
Asked his friend to ask me ( such courage ), then came in to watch and take some classes.
I didnt like the fact that he didnt introduce himself, I didnt know until later that he was the guy asking if we wanted to teach "authentic Bussey style Ninjitsu".

I have taught at others people school but its usually teaching a opposite or empty category ( grappling to karate guys, striking to grapplers or weapons where there was none).
Most of these were friend's schools and or seminars.

I just cant imagine walking into someone elses school with my uniform with rank on and start teaching and telling students what I think they are doing wrong.

Any of you get these people in your schools...or am I just lucky?

Jeff

**Musubi Dojo** · 11-27-2003, 14:59

That's Brutal Jeff,

I've never has anyone just walk in off the street and do that. I have had a few different guys make contact, come to a class after talking to me and then try to take over. They never come back though.

We were doing one step Randori and this one guy ( who wore a black belt) just hurled a white belt into the ground with Shi ho Nage. The "white belt" was a copper who had done Aikido before and managed a breakfall that saved him from serious harm. If he had been a beginner with no training he would have been seriously injured for sure.

We also had a guy who claimed to teach Aiki Jujutsu show up to teach some jo techniques. Turned out he was Ninjustu guy teaching hanbo techniques that we'd been doing a lot longer than he had. Turns out he wanted to try and work his way into teaching in our time slot.

These guys actually had training (even if it was misrepresented) and came across ok until they got on the mats. Then they were arrogant, pushy, and possibly dangerous jerks.

Then we would get the absolute nutbars claiming to have rank in all sorts of things or claiming to have trained under a secret Japanese master.

Martial Arts are magnets for freaks.

Cheers
c

**Jim** · 11-27-2003, 20:19

Jeff, did you actually advertise as wanting people to come in and teach or something? I've never heard of people coming in 'off the street' wearing their Gi's or 'whatever' and just expect to start teaching people. That's just plain insane! Not even someone who was well known in the MA community would attempt that (ie. a 'Gracie', Inosanto, etc.) and I'd never expect that from a 'loony'.

If this is the case, you gotta get yourself a digi-cam and start taking shots of them before you boot them. We'll get Robert to set up a special 'Rogues Gallery' here so we can look at 'em and laugh!

This is quite possibly the funniest thing I've heard all day - even funnier if they actually thought that they'd get away with it!

**Jeff Burger** · 11-28-2003, 05:59

I did not advertise that we were looking for teachers.

The first guy just came out of the ressing room with his black gi on (5 stripes on the belt Isshin Ryu patch on right hand side).
He walked out onto the middle of the floor during a kick boxing class and started doing Sanchin Kata.
I figured Id wait until he stopped and then talk with him.
He did one kata after another and I was busy with a stuent when he finished and immediately walked over to one of my students who was doing roundhouse kicks on the heavy bag and started telling them they are doing it wrong.
I tried to be polite about it saying "we do what we do for a reason" he insisted it was wrong.
He tried to take center stage telling the group MA is not self defense its about art and kick boxing is neither.
When I interupted his little speech he replied with " look if Im going to teach you" thats as far as he got I shut him off there.
Strange that he would mention art, when I think of the art part of MA besides the physical stuff there is the character building stuff.

Now the Aikido guy I wish I had on video...just the way he carried himself ( all I can think of is some good guy pirate captain) as he swashbuckled through the school.
I told him Im not intereste and our schedule is already booked. He asked to see what we had available for classes, after viewing schedule he says why dont we take out one day of karate and replace it with Aikido and see if they like it.
I said no and that those are kids classes.
He goes to say Aikido is too hard for kids and explaining Ki as if I had never heard the word before.
He kept wanting to give me a demo and had his gi and hakama in bag, I kept telling him I wasnt interested and would be leaving soon to go teach at my other school.
BTW he is not a black belt.

As for the Ninja guy Im not sure if I want him in the school.
We offer yoga and pilates classes and he came during that time.
I have more respect for the other guys than him, they may have been rude, over confident or even stupid but at least they were face to face.
That cloak and dagger crap doesnt go far with me.

Jeff

**De_Franza** · 12-03-2003, 11:52

If the ninja guy is actually any good, he could be there now, and you wouldn't even realize it!

What wackos! Hi! I'm here to teach at YOUR school! WTF?!

**johenora** · 12-03-2003, 13:13

I am still rolling over laughing. It is getting to be a world of marial arts mania with exhibitionism. The public martial arts school must be the fatal attraction,but to tell everyone they are wrong this is the height of all snobbery.
We call thees guys ---Kuchi Waza guys.
Cheers,

**riku** · 12-03-2003, 13:18

Jeff-
consider this: whether you going to let these guys keep on coming or not (well, which one it could be

), now they can mark in their CVs that they've been teaching in your dojo

... 15 minutes or so, but that they won't bother to mention...

Riku Ylönen

torbjorn · 12-16-2003, 13:32

This has got to be one of the funniest things I have ever heard concerning the martial arts...You're right to ask "where do they come from", although I'm not sure whether you (or I) want to know the answer...

Perhaps this is a clue though - my instructor sat on a dan testing panel in Norway a while back (he usually tries to avoid it because it gives him migraines), and was watching someone's prodigy come to take the black belt test. The guy was from a school in Denmark, and had come to Norway to test for his first dan since the relevant grandmaster was there at the time. Anyway, this dude putters through his forms and the required footwork/blocks/punches combinations plus onesteps and all the other stuff, none too impressive. However, the clincher came when he was asked to perform the breaking demonstration. Not only had the candidate neglected to prepare any demo, he was completely confused and flustered, having very obviously never broken anything before. So he picks up one (1) pine board and prepares to break it - the panel members stop him though, and tells him to get some more - he gets two more for a total of three (3) thin pine boards, which he then breaks after 4-5 tries. Other students snicker behind his back as he's whacking away (inappropriate of course, but completely understandable under the circumstances), so he turns around and flips them off (!!) in plain view of the judges. I can't remember whether he got his belt or not (grandmaster decides, whether the other panel members agree or not), but I do remember my instructor having to go out for more painkillers that evening

I don't know how common it is for guys like this to get their stripes and whatnot, but I'm assuming that there's a steady enough supply of illegitimate oddballs that could possibly think they're qualified to teach...haven't heard of any of them coming somewhere and try to teach though.

**De_Franza** · 12-16-2003, 15:42

Oh that story is pathetic!
I weep for the MAs!

**moogong** · 12-16-2003, 16:20

I had a instructor come in from another school to ask my instructor and I to sit in on his black belt test. He just wanted us put our names on the dan certificate. Well, being the nice guy my instructor is, he asked this fellow to teach a few of his techniques. The guy said "Sure, I'll show you some of our joint locking techniques". He proceeds to do something, I'm not sure what, on me wrist. It involved some pressure and a twist, I really can't explain it other than it was very weak. When I noticed he finished his motion, I just tapped my chest to be nice. Being a hapkido school, if you want to impress us, you really have to bring something hefty to the table. Whatever he did just wasnt it. Sooo..that's not so bad. After class ends he starts to show some of the lingering students some striking techniques. I proceed to pick up my bokken and go through a sword strikes off in a corner. Now, I am just doing basic strikes. This guy, stops his lesson to the other guys and comes over to me to show me the "proper way" of an 8 direction cut. He says it looks like my chambering is all wrong. He grabs his bag and pulls out a sword *why the hell did he bring this with him is what I'm thinking* and he starts chopping in the air. My instructor is watching and calls me over to him, he whispers "Take my sword *which is a really expensive live blade* and let him use that". He says it with a slight smile, and I know just what he has in mind. I hand it to the guy and say "Can you show me with this sword, sir"? He takes the sword from me and about drops it. Now, he can barely lift the sword to neck level. It's a nice sword, but its not Excaliber!! After a few attempts to show me "proper" cuts, he hands to back to me, without resheathing it. About this time I notice his sword is really cheap and is made of mostly plastic. On top of that, when he is changing afterwards, I notice he has really small forearms. Anybody that has invested any time with a sword is going to have good size forearms.
For the record, I told him I could not make it to his dan test. There is not way in hell I would put my name on anybody black belt certificate that it not in my school and I certainly dont want my name associtated with this guy.
Where do these people come from?

**johenora** · 12-16-2003, 17:28

Charles Slade:
They are the haters and skaters and those that "excell" and come out of the woodwork.My associate from Japan calls them "Kuchi Waza" types.
My way now is to be nice for they may become better.
You made my day. At least they are not coming with live blades to challenge your skills.When that happens we will need security guards. Already I like your teacher. He is a nice cool guy.
Lending him that shin ken was awesome. Me--I am --such an attached guy I would have been scared to do it.You got a great teacher.
Thank you kindly for the insights.
Cheers,

**Don Roley** · 12-17-2003, 02:59

It is not really surprising that these people exist, only that they have the guts (or lack of brains) to try something in an actual dojo. If you look at the internet, there are tons of guys who go around giving advice and talking about things they have no clue about. Phil Elmore coined the phrase "Virtual Sensei" to describe them.

If you want to see some true weirdos, let mention the fact that you study martial arts at some sort of party. I do not let people around me know I study the martial arts myself, but some of the stories I have heard make me fall off my chair laughing. Here is one story about a guy who is a notrious goof in the Daito ryu cirlces.

I can tell you I met him once or twice in passing, and he enthusiastically
issued Daito ryu membership cards on the spot to the majority of the people

This guy seems to have gotten a legitimate second dan in Daito ryu, then started his own orginization and promoted himself to tenth within it. Thus the need for more people to be members just to boost his claims.

And if you really want to laugh at some of the idiots in the martial arts, look up some of the on-line "Sokey doke" boards that give people a chance to pad their resume without any real ability like the World Head of Family Sokeship Council.

These idiots have to show up somewhere, it sounds like some of them finally wound up in your school.

**Jeff Burger** · 12-17-2003, 05:32

The Isshin Ryu guy actually know his stuff.
Not impressive but at least he isnt a complete Budo Bozo.

He still shows up periodically.
We have "open gym time' during which he pays to practice on his own.
But he has been told nicely by me and unpolitely by some of my students ( oops I keep forgeting to repremend them ) not to teach others.

Jeff

**De_Franza** · 12-17-2003, 06:44

Originally posted by Jeff Burger
... he has been told nicely by me and unpolitely by some of my students ( oops I keep forgeting to repremend them ) not to teach others.

Jeff

LOL!!!

**Jeff Burger** · 12-17-2003, 09:12

Im kind of laid back with the whole master, sensei, sifu rank thing.

It was nice to see the students were far more upset by him than me.

I think he saw the error of his way...but he didnt not come out an say it.

Iam a bit surprised by someone of high rank (5th dan) from a traitional type school that lacked basic dojo ettiqutte.

Jeff

**Jason H** · 12-17-2003, 09:59

With some people of advanced rank, ettiquette has to make room for the ever increasing ego: the bigger the ego, the less space available for common courtesy....

**moogong** · 12-17-2003, 16:01

Originally posted by Jason H
With some people of advanced rank, ettiquette has to make room for the ever increasing ego: the bigger the ego, the less space available for common courtesy....

You hit the nail on the head! I could never fathom walking into a school that I did not own and start barking orders or tell the student that they are practicing the wrong way. I don't care what rank I am or if I am a "master", "grandmaster". or "divine senior great grandmaster sifu of all that is holy" Even if I was invited to guest instruct, I would do my best to be respectful to the regular instructor. IMO, that's the same as me going to a house and telling children that their father is rasing them wrong.

**Jeff Burger** · 12-17-2003, 21:38

Yup nail on head.

I go to a few other schools from time to time and I always try to put things in a way thats not contradictory to what they already teach.
I will usually teach a opposite or a void.
Example grappling to a karate group or striking to a grappling group or a weapon they dont currently do.

I was recently asked by one of my ol instructors to teach some kick boxing at their school.
One of my classmates from that school competes well at the world class level.
I declined to teach kick boxing simply because there is a far superior kick boxing teacher there already.
They also do Judo so Im going to teach them leg locks....a void in theie training.
They still wanted some kick boxing so Im going to teach some Tam Tui and some Wing Chun...it fits into the kick boxing format so maybe I can add some new stuff to what they already do.

Jeff

alexiglecia · 06-01-2004, 13:48

Jeff,

Oddly, I remember writing you and your partner a polite email saying that my North End friend was excited about your school and that I might want to offer my classes. I never received a reply.

And I do remember coming in to your location to take yoga classes from a friend. We don't wear a uniform, and I remember shaking hands with and meeting your partner. I believe you were occupied at the time.

**Paul B** · 06-01-2004, 16:15

I just have to say,WOW!!! I am so glad I live in the sticks so I don't have to deal with this on a regular basis! Don't get me wrong even here in the cornfields we still get our share of "Instant Sensei,just add dojo and captive audience", but nothing like some of the stories I have read here! JEESH! Hats of to you Gentleman,you are better people than I. I don't think I could take it half as well as you have. But, I was trained from the get-go to observe my manners no matter where I am, how I acted while visiting anothers Dojo reflected on my Teachers, my Art,.etc. As a result I guess I'm not as tolerant of these kind of people as some here,as rudeness of any kind immediatley gets me riled,guess I still have some growing to do, huh? Any way Good luck in dealing with these people, maybe they will all get together ,
move away and start an exclusive "Grandmasters Only" club.One can only hope.

Best Regards,

Paul Bladen---Midwest Hapkido Group--Hanminjok Hapkido