TKD to TSD?

[sidekick]

This was mentioned on the TKD threads, but my question belongs over here. It seems that there is a movement/trend afoot for the more non sport TKD people to be moving into TSD. Question, aside from forms, what are the differences between real TKD and TSD and how are the TKD schools managing to reclassify themselves as legit TSD?

Mike Dunn

[silverhand]

I cant answer your question but my TKD school is Moo Duk Kwan...

Same is most TSD schools.

At their roots, the forms, one-step, three-step and sparring are generally exact...the only difference is in the individual movements, i.e. in TKD the movements are generally larger, more open, where in TSD, they are smaller, with smaller stances...my opinion of course..

There are other differences, but they are small in comparison to each art. From my experiance, if they are both MDK schools, there really is not a difference.

[Howard Thiery]

Good question. It really depends upon what type of TKD you have been doing and what hyungs they were practicing and teaching. I crossed over nearly 20 years ago after earning a 2nd dan in tkd. I found the opposite of the previous response. TSD has lower longer stances with larger hip twists connected directly to technique. At the time I crossed over TKD was pushing for more upright short stances and shorter, quicker movements without the strong connection to hip or torso movements. While not a terribly difficult crossover it was more difficult than anticipated. Having studied TSD for nearly 20 years now I see more connections to various Karate forms in movement, stances and forms tha to TKD.

just my 2 cents (which in this economy is worth half a penny)
cheers,
Howard Thiery

[Moo duk kwan 2004]

Mike,

The similarities between TKD and TSD Moo Duk Kwan ended many years ago in the early 1960's when TKD was formed by General Choi. At this point many of the TSD Kwans switched to follow the newly formed TKD. This included some very senior Moo Duk Kwan practitioners like Lee, Kang Ek. They chose to leave TSD and take TKD MDK to General Choi.

TSD hyungs are Okinowan in heritage, apart from the Yuhk Ro and Chil Sung Hyungs that were devised by Kwang Jang Nim Hwang in the late seventies, from the translations of the Moo Yei Do Bo Tonji (Yuhk Ro - Six paths).

TSD differs as it has kept to it's original hyungs, whereas TKD MDK generally uses the new WTF Poomse or the ITF Taeguk forms. Also, TSD uses a lot of power generated from the stance and hip, whereas TKD looks at shorter, quicker movements.

I Have personally trained in both TKD MDK and currently in TSD MDK, both have their own benefits and applications.

Tang Soo!!

[kodanjaclay]

Thats not entirely accurate. If you are referring to TKD MDK schools affiliated with KKW, you are partially right.

Keeping that in mind, many of the schools affiliated with Oh Do Kwan, Moo Duk Kwan and Chung Do Kwan teach their older hyung as well as the newer poomse. An interesting side note here is that the "official" poomse will be changing. KKW is coming up with something new. We shall see what the outcome is.

[Moo duk kwan 2004]

Master Frank,

Thanks for your correction, I was speaking from experience within the Kukkiwon TKD MDK. This is where I have experienced the TAeGuk Hyungs and Koryu etc.., none of which appear in the TSD syllabus..

Many Thanks,

Tang Soo!!

[dingodog1]

I cant answer your question but my TKD school is Moo Duk Kwan...

Same is most TSD schools.

At their roots, the forms, one-step, three-step and sparring are generally exact...the only difference is in the individual movements, i.e. in TKD the movements are generally larger, more open, where in TSD, they are smaller, with smaller stances...my opinion of course..

There are other differences, but they are small in comparison to each art. From my experiance, if they are both MDK schools, there really is not a difference.

Are you all affiliated with Ju Hun Kim or his old student; dang, the one who established the Martial Arts program at Radford College.

He's a Moo Duk Kwan TKD guy, originally and also has a Korean Martial Arts Umbrella org now. I'll get back with his name if no one comes up with it before me.

[ipscshooter]

TSD differs as it has kept to it's original hyungs, whereas TKD MDK generally uses the new WTF Poomse or the ITF Taeguk forms. Also, TSD uses a lot of power generated from the stance and hip, whereas TKD looks at shorter, quicker movements.

The ITF (assuming you are talking about International Taekwondo Federation and not International Tang Soo Do Federation) does not practice the Taeguk forms. The Taeguk forms are WTF forms. ITF practices the Ch'ang Hon Forms devised by Gen. Choi. There appear to be a lot of similarities between the Tang Soo Do forms and the Ch'ang Hon forms. The Kicho set are all very similar to Dan Gun, and I see a lot of other similarities as well. It almost looks as though Gen. Choi mixed and matched portions of the TSD hyungs to develop the Ch'ang Hon hyungs.

[kmtsd]

What's the difference between TSD and TKD?
Not much.
There are more differences from school to school than between the two styles. For example I have visited many TSD and TKD schools and I have found that in some cases my TSD school trained more similiar to a TKD school than by another TSD school. In general TKD has different forms than TSD-but I have been surprised to see my forms(although performed a little differently) at TKD and shoto kan schools. Also perhaps TKD tends to be a little more open to new ideas and flashy uniforms compared to TSD...BUT I have seen very traditional TKD schools. I don't believe people should be encouraged to switch from TKD to TSD or vice-versa...if their "school" doesn't fit them and they would like more traditional training or less traditional - visit a lot of schools both TKD and TSD and find out which one is right for you. If you are already in TKD and you want more traditonal training it is very likely you can find another TKD school that fits you and you won't have to learn new forms.
I would not recommend training in both styles -they are too similiar...
Candace Hill

[dingodog1]

Mike,

The similarities between TKD and TSD Moo Duk Kwan ended many years ago in the early 1960's when TKD was formed by General Choi. At this point many of the TSD Kwans switched to follow the newly formed TKD. This included some very senior Moo Duk Kwan practitioners like Lee, Kang Ek. They chose to leave TSD and take TKD MDK to General Choi.

TSD hyungs are Okinowan in heritage, apart from the Yuhk Ro and Chil Sung Hyungs that were devised by Kwang Jang Nim Hwang in the late seventies, from the translations of the Moo Yei Do Bo Tonji (Yuhk Ro - Six paths).

TSD differs as it has kept to it's original hyungs, whereas TKD MDK generally uses the new WTF Poomse or the ITF Taeguk forms. Also, TSD uses a lot of power generated from the stance and hip, whereas TKD looks at shorter, quicker movements.

I Have personally trained in both TKD MDK and currently in TSD MDK, both have their own benefits and applications.

Tang Soo!!

To me, it seems that MDK TSD schools emphasize knife hand and bladed feet on side kicks and MDK TKD schools emphasize fist strikes with the hands and the heel of the foot for side kicks. Don't know if my impression is off but it is true fo my limited experience with the two styles.