Mc Everthing part 2

[Mandeigh Wells]

from May 2004 Spirit and Destiny magazine.

"Yoga teachers beware! Bikram Choudhury, creator of Bikram yoga - the sweaty one done in heated rooms, with celeb fans like Madonna - has copyrighted his 26 poses and breathing techniques. In an agressive moer rarely seen in the world of stretching and inner peace, he's thretening to sue anyone teaching his sequence of moves and calling it Bikram yoga , if they haven't attended his £2700 traiing course and paid a franchise fee. Followers insist he is just protecting the public and his teachers. But some angry US yoga teachers are suing him back, claiming that yoga is a 5,000 year old tradition which cannot be owned. The copyright lawyer for the group says "You can't treat the poses as private property. People are out tehre trying to teach yoga and they are not sure what is going to get them sued.'


Mandeigh

[the little jitsuka]

lol..only in America


ste mather

[J.J.Smith]

"£2700"

Looks like Europe to me.


Anywho, I have no problem with idiots proclaiming their idioticy, makes them easier to spot.

[Jeff Burger]

Well Baron Baptiste founder of Power Yoga tried to trade write the word Yoga.
When that failed he tried to trae write Power Yoga, but others had already been using it. That didnt stop them from calling other Power Yoga people and threatening to sued.
Now they have trade rights to Baptise Power Yoga and a combonation they claim is their own.

Most yoga now is not much more than like yoga modified aerobics class than a true practice.

We use the term Mc Dojo, they use the term "drive through yoga".

Jeff

[Sgathak]

To be fair to Bikram, his poses, pacing, and yogic philosophy ARE very destinctive. Its not like he is trying to copyright or trademark "Sun Salutations".

It depends on how he chooses to follow up on this that Im concerned about... IF he is in fact merely attempting to protect the yogic style that HE developed, with his name attached to it, and is his "intellectual property" so be it... and good for him.

IF however he chooses to threaten every person out there doing a vinyasa sequence in the park, we have an issue.

[KZMiller]

Why am I suddenly reminded of D. Trump trying to copyright "You're fired!"? Yes, Trump's delivery and so forth was distinctive, however, you can't own that! You can try, but you can't! I can see why Trump would feel inclined to try. I can see why Bikram would want some control over what he teaches. I think that both men are making a similar error, IMHO. They are taking something that already exists and is being used by others and are trying to control it. Their motives may not be at all sinister. They just may not be considering the fact that they can't claim something like this for their own. In the case of Bikram it sounds like he's trying to take on a certain level of responsibility for what is being taught and may fear repercussions if harm comes to someone, whether it's a guilty conscience or lawsuit. Regardless of his reasoning, I don't think it's any more practical than copyrighting "You're fired" and will probably go as far.

[Andrew Green]

Depends on what he is doing...

Suppose you where to start the "Wells TaiChi Academy"

20 years later it's a rather famous school, lots of big names.

Now people start opening schools and teaching "Wells Taichi" without your permission, just to make money off of your name. Would you be ok with that? Or would you want all those instructors that got a video and are using your name to sell themselves, making you and your name look bad in the process, to stop?

[Mandeigh Wells]

well that has already happened with the Chens and Yangs taiji....but I have yet to see them copyrighting their taiji styles.......

Mandeigh

[Sgathak]

Bikram Yoga is nothing like taking a phrase in common useage and attempting to copyright/trademark it. There was no Bikram Yoga before Chadhury Bikram MADE Bikram Yoga. He didnt take someone eles work and put his name on it, he developed his own way of doing Yoga. Hes not trying to trademark "yoga". He is trying to get the frauds using HIS SYSTEM of Yoga out of the ranks. I applaud him for his attempts at quality control.

Its as Andrew Green said. (I wont repeat, you can reread it if need be )

And I would say that after a hundred or so years of non enforcement, "Yang Tai Chi" is probably pretty close to public domain, but alot of the modern combat systems are not quite so "public domain" and are being developed as protected under trademark/copyright.

Not that I would want to, but I cant go out and start a SCARS school, or a SPEAR school, or a Defendo school, or a Jim Wagner Reality Fighting school, unless I got permission to do so, and if I DID attempt to go open my own "Jim Wagner Reality Fighting" school sans the approval of Jim Wagner, Id expect to get a little letter from Mr Wagners attorney at any moment.

[Sgathak]

And as a matter of full disclosure, I do not study Bikram Yoga.... I dont like it in fact. I disagree with his philosophy, though I do maintain that he should have the right to protect that philosophy (flawed as it may be )

[Mandeigh Wells]

that does depend what it actually is that he is attempting to copyright....it is not exactly clear if it is simply the name......or the postures...or what.
the part of the small article that impressed me the least was the ......pay the franchise fee bit......

so what is Bikram Yoga like then......

mandeigh

oops just remembered another thing......doh...I train under the White Crane School of Taijiquan.....only 80 miles away another school opened up calling its self White Crane Tai chi Chuan.......infact if you do a google search you will find loads of them. A number of years ago a couple of mates and I started Taijiscotland...there is now another group calling itself Tai Chi Scotland........

[Sgathak]

Bikram Yoga is a series of 26 SPECIFIC postures, held in SPECIFIC order, for a SPECIFIC time frame, resulting in a workout of 90 minutes. Bikram Yoga is also often called "Hot Yoga" because it is recommended that classes be done in rooms at 105deg F, and at 60% humidity.

And here is why Bikram Yoga has a fee for the certifications - It takes more than a hot room and a list of postures to make your Bikram Method Yoga practice a safe, rewarding experience. Bikram Method Yoga is a specialized form of yoga, requiring appropriate training and knowledge to teach it effectively... To be certified as an instructor in the Bikram Method of Yoga, an instructor must complete an intensive nine-week training requiring over 500 hours of study. (from the Bikram site FAQ's - Bikramyoga.com)

[Sgathak]

Further, surely your not saying that the person doing the certification not get paid for their time teaching as much as 500 hours? Maybe you dont charge(?), but some people use their teaching money buy their bread and pay their bills.

As for a franchise fee, I wouldnt expect to open a store as part of a chain (for the sake of arguement, a McDonalds) without paying the appropriate fee

[Mandeigh Wells]

thanks for the info.

I don't have a problem with people paying for training......I have had to for a variety of things......I am still not sure about the franchise element though..

...perhaps in reality if it is quite different from some traditional forms of yoga.....he maybe shouldn't be calling it Yoga?? like I have a bit of a problem with the Taoist Tai Chi Society calling what they do taiji when it is not.

Maybe its the fact that he has the term Yoga in the title and therefor trying to copyright the whole name Bikram Yoga......that the folk are objecting to?

anyway I just found in a mag and thought it was interesting.......looks like you can just about franchise anything...

Mandeigh

edit: re franchise, why do you have to do it as part of a chain? I work independently from my teachers, we work by mutual respect, why can't you study Bikram Yoga, do your training, get your qualification and then open your own classes teaching the stuff you are qualified in without being part of a franchise?

[Sgathak]

One last point.... of the schools that opened under the name of Tai Chi Scotland, or White Crane Tai chi. Were either of those schools named with a specific intent of using your schools/organizations name and reputation to give themselvs legitimacy or otherwise improve their standing?

Both names seem kind of generic to me. No insult intended, but they do. Tai Chi Scotland. Coudl that be.... ummm... Tai chi in Scotland? Probably.

However, if someone named thier school "Mandeighs Tai Chi Scotland" because your school, Mandeighs TaijiScotland" has a good reputation and lots of interest, you might be a LITTLE miffed, eh?

[Mandeigh Wells]

Both names seem kind of generic to me. No insult intended, but they do. Tai Chi Scotland. Coudl that be.... ummm... Tai chi in Scotland? Probably.

actually that was the point I was trying to make.....

Were either of those schools named with a specific intent of using your schools/organizations name and reputation to give themselvs legitimacy or otherwise improve their standing?

who know's certainly Taijiscotland is well known and regarded as a pretty major organisation. We promote traditional styles...the other guys...appear to have recently changed their name and promote a non traditional style.....who knows what their motives are.......As for the other near white crane school.....she just liked the name.

M

[Jeff Burger]

I dont mind Bikrahm or Baptiste having control over their name but they want to copywrite / trademark the combonation of moves moves.
Thats like Taiji Scotland copywritting a form.
Or me copywritting sparring combonations.
Imagine the Gracies being able to say only they can legally go into an armbar from certain positions.

Jeff

[Sgathak]

If I came up with a form that was the lifeblood, the very core, of what it was I was doing... Id want to protect it as well. Without these 26 moves, its not Bikram. Without those 26 moves, Bikram doesnt exist.

[J.J.Smith]

It's a fine line. As far as I know you can't copywrite a sentence, but you can copywrite a book. If a word or sentence is equal to a move or string of moves, how much do they have to write to make it their own?

[Jeff Burger]

But they ont belong to him, they belong to yoga, they were there for centuries before he was born.
They are 26 of the most common moves in yoga.

Jab
Cross
Hook
Front kick
Side kick
Round kick
Elbow
Knee
Catch
Shoulder roll
Parry
Elbow block
Scoop
Shield

Thats only 14 moves but without it I dont have my Muay Thai.
Can I trademark them and not allow others to use them? I hope no one can.

Maybe Bikrahm and Baptiste should practice their practice a little more and let go of some material attachments.
I think they are making yoga look ridiculous.

Jeff