Is this ki?

**DukeReg** · 09-13-2004, 21:53

"harmony of the mind-body-hormonal triangle. That’s the state the Japanese call "ki""
-- excerpt from Competitive Fire by Michael Clarkson
http://www.humankinetics.com/product...xcerpt_id=2941

Hi everyone,

Do you agree with this above quote?
Any comments related to this?

Reg.

**StanLee** · 09-14-2004, 02:30

Reg,

Forum rules states that you must post your full name at the end of your post.

**DukeReg** · 09-15-2004, 07:53

Thank you for reminding me Stan Lee.
My only excuse is that this is the first forum I have ever used that has this particular rule.

So...
Does anyone have any comment on the idea that "ki" is the harmony of mind body and hormones? I found the idea quite intuitivelly sound myself, but I'm not the type to accept it out of hand, and was hoping for input from people with more experience of japanese arts...

Signed,
John Reginald Kenneth Pratt

**riku** · 09-15-2004, 10:08

First, as usual, the caveat: I'm really no master, or teacher or guru of any kind... just a student of some martial arts.. Secondly, welcome to budoseek on my behalf!

. And third , to the question

...

It's partly interesting idea, and bit similar I've run across in some Korean MA.. but I found hard to understand how any ki cultivation could take place when endocrine secretion is strongly involved in concept.. of course, if it's meant to be more like helping construction, then it might be ok.. However, whole concept of ki seem to fragmented far too heavily to be useful in general, and to that problem such a trichotomy might work..

Just my 0.02 Euros.

Riku Ylönen

DaftestScientist · 10-01-2004, 06:57

Hi, check out this post in regards to Ki http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/sh...9&page=1&pp=20 My opinion on ki...the most natural state of being in the universe

**David Craik** · 10-01-2004, 10:34

Originally Posted by DaftestScientist

Hi, check out this post in regards to Ki http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/sh...9&page=1&pp=20 My opinion on ki...the most natural state of being in the universe

Check out this post in regards to real names http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2641 - the most natural state of being in BudoSeek.

**Dennis Monk** · 10-01-2004, 21:41

Oh I just spit diet Dr. Pepper all over my screen.

**J4d3** · 01-02-2005, 04:23

i can always appreciate wit like that.i'll give that a 9 out of 10.

**Bugeisha** · 01-03-2005, 19:08

Oww...
My abdominals are too sore to take that kind of joking today. I'm just lucky I wasn't drinking anything, or I'd be in deep with my girlfriend (who owns the computer).

**gaijin samurai** · 04-12-2005, 05:30

Ki is the inner energy we all have. Very few people know how to use it. A martial artist must know because he doesn't work only with his body but with his mind and spirit as well. In Aikido the main thing is your ki. You have to use it properly and you have to use your opponents ki as well.

**Jeff C.** · 04-12-2005, 17:13

Reg, reading the quote within the context of the link you provided, I would have to say (in my opinion) that it is one of the poorest descriptions of ki I have ever seen.

The article describes ki as a "state." Never heard that before! Ki is impossible to define, although many try to do so. It is frequently described as "life force," something that is a natural part of everything (therefore saying it is a "state" is like saying your blood and nervous system is a "state").

It is also frequently defined as that intangible "something" that binds/links body-mind-spirit. "Hormone" substituted for "spirit" almost sounds like an intentional joke. Probably not though, after looking at the website.

When a person is able to do apparently phenomenal things with his/her martial arts, very often people say that person was demonstrating "ki" or "chi." I would say that you are either observing a parlor trick, or you are observing a perfectly coordinated action that complies with the rules of normal biomechanics. Nothing mystical whatsoever.

My recommendation is to not get wrapped up in the whole ki/chi/qi debate, and just stick to training.

Jeff Cook
Wabujitsu

**DukeReg** · 04-12-2005, 20:12

Thanks Jeff, I'll bear that in mind. I tend to ignore things I don't understand most of the time anyway. Makes life simpler.

**Iron Dove** · 04-13-2005, 03:16

i think there is a scientific rather than mystiacal explanation of ki, for example many tests have been done on the electrical current that flows through our body and a few scientists have noted that the electrical current follows a similar path as the meridians. alot of work still needs to be done on this though, at first the westerns concluded that ki was bunk because it could not be explained with the existing theories of the nerous system, however once the evidences of the success of tcm and dim mak more and more people are starting to figure out an explanation.

**Dennis Monk** · 04-13-2005, 06:04

Originally Posted by Iron Dove

however once the evidences of the success of tcm and dim mak more and more people are starting to figure out an explanation.

There has been no evidence of the success of dim mak. While there is much to be learned from TCM, dim mak is for charlatans and the fools that follow them.

**DukeReg** · 04-15-2005, 08:33

Dim mak sounds more than a little far fetched to me.

What does TCM stand for, and what is it?

**Gene Williams** · 04-15-2005, 11:01

Yes, Dim Mak is garbage. Ki is the name given to a complex of mental and physiological processes that take place in a martial artist who has achieved some degree of proficiency and understanding. It includes, but is not limited to, relaxation, proper breathing, mental focus, and physical skill. It also has to do with adrenalin, serotonin, and some other brain chemicals. In senior martial artists, it is related to the concept of "shibumi," or effortless perfection (or better, effortless mastery). It isn't magic, it isn't mystery, and it isn't what George Dillman does

You see it most consistently in seniors, but sometimes in lower ranks. The difference is, the senior has it all the time and the junior gets it sometimes and never knows when it will happen. There is no such thing as a "ki punch." A skilled senior's punch is always a ki punch. You see ki elsewhere than in the martial arts. Derek Jeter, Michael Jordan, Babe Ruth, Nolan Ryan, Ray Charles, Tiger Woods, Secretariat, and Minnesota Fats all are examples of Ki. When a 5'2" ,8 months pregnant momma lifts a volkswagon off a child, that isn't ki, but it is a part of what it is.

**Dennis Monk** · 04-15-2005, 11:47

I think ki, chi, qi, whatever, is a myth and a ruse for some charlatans to exploit the easily fooled. That explanation, however was the best one I have heard yet.

**Gene Williams** · 04-15-2005, 12:31

I pretty much agree, Dennis. I think ki is just a name we give to a physical and mental process. I have seen the same kind of charlatans do demos and say, "Now, I'm gonna' use my ki punch." All he does is punch harder.

**CEB** · 04-15-2005, 12:43

If you don't have ki you are dead.

**Gene Williams** · 04-15-2005, 15:11

KI For Two (sung to the tune of "Tea for Two")

Oh ki for you and ki for me
A deadly pair we both will be
While I punch you and you punch me all day.

Oh I had ki and so did she
And in the sack we ran to see
If all that ki would really be so great.

And now we have a little Ki
And I bought him a little gi
So he can see if he will be a soke.

Thank you, hold your applause.