New Info Hapkido History

**Michael Tomlinson** · 11-17-2005 12:00

Hey man I got to get me one of those 9th or 10th dans!!! Does it come with Fries, a burger, and a new toy????? We could call it the Happy Dan....just add money...
Michael Tomlinson

**klaasb** · 11-17-2005 18:01

don't know if you will be that happy after you get your @55 kicked by a true 9th kub

**Michael Tomlinson** · 11-17-2005 18:45

They can kick my butt, just don't spill my drink and eat my fries....

Michael Tomlinson

**aplonis** · 11-26-2005 16:50

What is history except a fable, agreed upon. -- Napoleon

**Getonthematt** · 12-19-2005 15:46

I have trained with Master Garrison, Master Dick Morgan and Sang Kim Cook they are no joke, no jumping ranks try one of his seminars or contact him reguarding your questions, but dont disgrace us by saying childish things.
You MAY have to explain your actions to a WOMAF or PRMAA student some day and then will be unable to hide behind the anonimity of the web.
If you would like more info....
Greg Hindley

**HapkidoTeacher** · 12-19-2005 22:23

I trained with Master Garrison for 15 years. His organization is small but that's because most people can't tow the line that he requires.

His Hapkido rank is legitimate. His Chung Do Kwan AND Master Certifications through Korea are legit, I have seen them personally. I also know that his Judo rank is legit and he trained in Japan for many years.

His Aikido instructors were primarily Fumio Toyoda and Prof. Walter Todd. Aikido and Judo legends who are now deceased. I had the pleasure to train with both of them at Seminars at Mr. Garrison's school for several years before they passed.

I understand the "fear" in looking at multiple ranks. Some arts are easy to bridge the gaps, some degrees are more honorary and given for a lifetime of study and dedication to. He definitely fits the bill.

Should be cautious about talking about people you do not know too much about.

And, to help you even more. He pretty much booted Mr. Pelligrini out of WOMAF when he wanted rank and Mr. Garrison would not promote him. And yes, he did manage to jump 2-3 ranks under Mr. Myung's organization shortly thereafter. Not a shot at Master Myung, probably hard to have such quality control over a large organization.

Just my .02c

Jeff Hindley
WHA Representative
Oregon State Rep.

**Getonthematt** · 12-20-2005 15:36

Mr. Hindley,

How long did he train with WOMAF?
Do you know his rank at the time and what he was looking for?
I heard a story about Mr. Garrison and Mr. Pelligrini a long time ago?
Just sad people say such things without investigating or being respectful.
Greg

**DragonMind** · 12-21-2005 14:49

Gentlemen, the only thing that has been called into question is the lack of verifiable documentation of the claims being made. Saying you've seen some piece of paper proves only that you claim to have seen a piece of paper. If you expect us to take you for an expert witness, you're going to have to provide your credentials as well.

I find it ironic that someone would comment on investigation and respect while gossiping about someone else second hand.

**HapkidoTeacher** · 12-22-2005 02:02

I'm not gossiping about anybody secondhand Mr. McConnell. I was there during the Flordia seminar with JP many, many years ago. He couldn't hack it in the organization, period and he left.

The other comments were regarding Jim Garrison's apparently bloated rank. Simply put, they are not bloated at all. Some of the latter ranks are very likely honorable but he has a lifetime of study in said arts nonetheless.

Personally, I find it refreshing that two GM's really don't find a need for bloated self-importance to the point that they really don't care about providing documentation. If people want documentation, they can always join WOMAF I guess. I've seen it.

The particular TKD Times piece that was posted in the letters to the editor section (quoted early in this thread) was posted by the TKD Times hierarchy because they know who he is and the lineage behind him.

Not sure what the problem with that is.

And I hope everyboyd has a very Merry Christmas.

Jeff

**Hapkiyoosool** · 12-22-2005 07:39

On the lighter side of the news.

We are having our Winter Semniar in February this year as usual. The First weekend of February to be exact.

If anyone is interested. let us know.

Where you ask? At our USHQ of course! You can get more info from the website.

This is the link for more information so just click here!!!!!

**DragonMind** · 12-22-2005 14:17

Originally Posted by HapkidoTeacher

...Personally, I find it refreshing that two GM's really don't find a need for bloated self-importance to the point that they really don't care about providing documentation. If people want documentation, they can always join WOMAF...

Jeff

See, that's a problem. Anyone can claim anything. That sort of argument is usually the first line of defense for frauds who CAN'T prove what they say. We require providence on things to weed out the charlatans. That attitude plays right into their game. Proving who and what you are is not "bloated self-importance" unless you are bragging about it or expect people to kowtow to you because of it. I have a Florida driver's license. That isn't self-importance, simply documentation that I have been judged sufficiently qualified to operate a motor vehicle in Florida. I have several teaching certificates. Again, nothing to do with self-importance, merely documentation that I do, in fact, possess a skill I claim to have. Nobody is going to be awed by the fact that I'm licensed to drive or to teach, but when a LEO wants to know what I'm doing behind the wheel, I better prove I have the right to do so. When a parent wants assurance that I can teach their child, they have a right to demand I prove it.

**Getonthematt** · 12-22-2005 15:04

Barry wrote:

See, that's a problem. Anyone can claim anything. That sort of argument is usually the first line of defense for frauds who CAN'T prove what they say. We require providence on things to weed out the charlatans. That attitude plays right into their game. Proving who and what you are is not "bloated self-importance" unless you are bragging about it or expect people to kowtow to you because of it. I have a Florida driver's license. That isn't self-importance, simply documentation that I have been judged sufficiently qualified to operate a motor vehicle in Florida. I have several teaching certificates. Again, nothing to do with self-importance, merely documentation that I do, in fact, possess a skill I claim to have. Nobody is going to be awed by the fact that I'm licensed to drive or to teach, but when a LEO wants to know what I'm doing behind the wheel, I better prove I have the right to do so. When a parent wants assurance that I can teach their child, they have a right to demand I prove it.
__________________
Barry McConnell

Barry,
I guess its only a problem for you, or the others who must put 10 different arts on their bio and have nothing to do but make some of those idiotic remarks and comments. Stick there thoughts in. Create some controversy or whatever reason.

Really go back and read the thread.

It was insulting to GM Garrison and Mr. Kim.

Whose "WE" and is it your job to weed out the charlatans?

I agree we all keep an eye on the new teachers around and they usually fade from sight given time. Seen many come and go.

GM Garrison has been at the same location for a lifetime.
Giving everything to the MA
No chain schools
no buying rank
NO game playing
No BS.
He is as hardcore as they come.
I am very proud of my rank from WOMAF and it was earned. Not bought like others have done in other organizations..

I'm sure if Mr. Garrison had a free moment from teaching and counseling and giving of himself he would be more than happy to discuss his charlatanic paper with you in a respectful and honest manner.

He is easy enough ti find if you want to!

Would you then come back after you demanded satisfaction and write an apology on BUDO or say something to the nay sayers on this thread.

I bet not.

For people to say such crazy things about Mr. Garrison shows their jealousy and that they are intimidated and ignorant.

I believe if you read the statements you will see. I know that I have NEVER heard of you and don't go around saying stupid comments about your lack of skill, your rush to judgment or you must provide documentation to ME because I am weeding out the charlatans. lol

That is perhaps one of the dumbest egotistical things I have heard for a while.

I don't believe there are any laws regarding providing documents when you sign at a school.

Drivers license?????
How does that relate. PLEASE.

Ill be in Orlando in a few months for a Hapkido tournament maybe we can get together and have lunch and discuss this further?

Greg Hindley Douglasville, GA USA
(kicking and punching and fighting anyone anytime anywhere for 25 plus years.)
I dont have any documentation but Ill get on the mat with anyone.

Tae Kwon Do
Hapkido
KIckboxing
Judo
Jujitsu
Mixed Martial Arts

I HAD always respected the thoughts and writings of Michael Tomlinson, Klaas Barends, Stuart Rosenberg and Rupert Atkinson.

Shame on you all.

What goes around comes around.
You cannont take your words away from the minds of others and others will remember.

**Michael Tomlinson** · 12-22-2005 18:28

I didn't comment on Garrison I commented on the automatic dan rank generator that everyone was talking about..never mentioned you or Garrison and I don't know either of you...nor you me..were you in attendance a million years ago in Orange City for the JP debacle? You mentioned being in Florida and seeing him not hack it,,maybe we have met before? If so I don't remember. For some reason you have taken this thread as an insult somehow? I don't see after rereading the threads why you got so upset.. What Barry is saying has some merit and what you say does also..I really didn't feel Barry was being disrespectful and I understood the driver liscense analogy...dude you mentioned you didn't need to list 25 arts as a snip to Barry but then you listed six and then jumped to the conclusion of wanting to meet someone and fighting anyone anytime for 25 years??? Shame on you for that one...I think if you calm down and give those in question some good info they can respect your side of the coin...heck I am promoted by Ji Han Jae...you don't think he gets any flack on the internet for some of his promotions do you... bottom line is that I know who I am and who I train with so I have to laugh at some of the nay sayers with him who couldn't even train with him two days in a row without quitting and running home to get on their computer and talk about him or the guys who have been in Hapkido for twenty some odd years and talk bad about him but have NEVER been on the mat with him or even met him,,, but that is THEIR problem and has nothing to do with the many many lessons he has taught me..Hapkido and otherwise.. one time after training during lunch he told me I was like a big kid and I liked to laugh and have fun...then he said that was good Hapkido....IF you lose your center so quickly when being questioned what lessons can be learned from that???
Michael Tomlinson

**American HKD** · 12-22-2005 20:36

Greetings

I didn't comment either, I just posted the article because I read it and never heard of him!

**Jeff C.** · 12-22-2005 20:53

Alright children, let's not let this get out of hand.

Discussion and speculation concerning an ambiguous history of martial arts is perfectly acceptable, if it remains respectful. Asking for verification of rank is acceptable, if done respectfully.

Making sarcastic remarks about high ranks without proof, one way or the other, of legitimacy is unacceptable. Overreacting to a request for more proof of a claim is unacceptable.

Making veiled threats is unacceptable, immature and potentially unhealthy.

Jeff Cook

**SinMooCT** · 12-23-2005 09:11

Looks like some great Holiday Spirit from Greg. Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah. Mike T is a great martial artist that tries to keep things in perspective. He has a good heart but don't be so quick to throw out challenges. Everyone's background will come into question from time to time especially if you're doing something right. It's the true martial artist who is comfortable with who they are and their spirit that ignors insignificant comments. Train, focus, and remember what is really important.

**howard** · 12-23-2005 09:50

Originally Posted by Jeff C.

...Making veiled threats is unacceptable, immature and potentially unhealthy.

...Not to mention potentially illegal...

Assault: the threat or use of force on another that reasonably makes that person fear bodily harm

**DragonMind** · 12-24-2005 21:14

Originally Posted by Getonthematt

Barry,
I guess its only a problem for you, or the others who must put 10 different arts on their bio and have nothing to do but make some of those idiotic remarks and comments. Stick there thoughts in. Create some controversy or whatever reason.

Fascinating. I list four arts; two that I have recently retired from and two (actually aspects of the same art) that I actively practice. I don't even list arts I have dan rank in but haven't practiced for years. You deride me for my listing but immediately proceed to try and impress someone with your list. As for idiotic remarks, I've insulted no one nor made unsubstantiated claims. Please have the courtesy to do the same.

Really go back and read the thread.

It was insulting to GM Garrison and Mr. Kim.

Asking questions is hardly insulting; particularly when claims are being made that seem far afield from already established events and documented lineages. The virulent attack reaction you've shown is a common tactic of the frauds and charlatans I mentioned earlier. In fact, my earlier post was pointing out the fact that such behavior only makes people more suspicious. An honest person has nothing to fear from legitimate questions, respectfully submitted. Frauds live in constant fear of exposure.

Whose "WE" and is it your job to weed out the charlatans?

I agree we all keep an eye on the new teachers around and they usually fade from sight given time. Seen many come and go.

We is the responsible teachers and leaders of the MA community. If we fail to police our own ranks, we may wake up to find someone else doing it for us.

Strange, you ask who'se job it is to weed out charlatans in the first sentence and then take on the job yourself in the very next breath. I'm beginning to see a pattern of you trying to take both sides of an issue to avoid dealing with it directly.

GM Garrison has been at the same location for a lifetime.
Giving everything to the MA
No chain schools
no buying rank
NO game playing
No BS.

I don't knoiw him or anyone who does know him. When someone starts claiming extremely high rank from somewhere off the radar, and making claims about events that no one else seems to know about, they have to epect to be asked to back up those claims. Responses like yours that effectively say 'you should believe me just because I say so' is not going to cut it. You don't have to like it, but only a fool would not expect it.

I am very proud of my rank from WOMAF and it was earned. Not bought like others have done in other organizations..

That is irrelevant. The fact that some people in some organizations may have bought unearned rank doesn't prove anything. People with legitimate ranks from respected organizations are generally happy to provide documentation when asked. Now, if you are just trying to be a smart-*** and backhandedly insult anyone on this forum, I will warn you that such behavior will not be tolerated.

I'm sure if Mr. Garrison had a free moment from teaching and counseling and giving of himself he would be more than happy to discuss his charlatanic paper with you in a respectful and honest manner.

If someone had actually called him a charlatan, I would be happy to let him know so that he could respond without being attacked from the shadows. We had a similar situation not long ago with people attacking Julian Lim and that is how it was handled then. Once again, I was pointing out that your behavior follows the pattern of them and was warning you that your actions did not help make your case. Your subsequent response calls your case even further into question.

Would you then come back after you demanded satisfaction and write an apology on BUDO or say something to the nay sayers on this thread.

I bet not.

I have made pubic apology when I've been wrong. There is certainly no need to in this case. I haven't demanded anything of anyone. I have defended the right of people to ask questions without being attacked for the asking. I make no apologies for that.

For people to say such crazy things about Mr. Garrison shows their jealousy and that they are intimidated and ignorant.

For people to ask questions about claims that run contrary to common knowledge and documented fact is not crazy or jealous, nor does it imply that they are ignorant or intimidated. To make such claims only displays a lack of maturity and character. Attacking them for asking questions only highlights the suspicion that you have something to hide.

I believe if you read the statements you will see. I know that I have NEVER heard of you and don't go around saying stupid comments about your lack of skill, your rush to judgment or you must provide documentation to ME because I am weeding out the charlatans. lol

That is perhaps one of the dumbest egotistical things I have heard for a while.

Had you asked, I would have been happy to do so. In fact, the last blow-hard that did ask got my credentials. If you'll do a search on BudoSeek you'll see them as well. For the record, I never said a word about anyone's skill or lack of skill, did not judge anything but your choice of tactic, and never asked anyone for documentation. My issue was with your insulting of people asking legitimate questions. McCarthy-style tactics won't fly here.

I don't believe there are any laws regarding providing documents when you sign at a school.

Yet. Several states have attempted to license MA teachers/schools. If we don't police our own ranks, we give the politicians ammunition.

Drivers license????? How does that relate. PLEASE.

That's called an analogy. If I claim to be a driver, I have to provide documentation. If someone claims top rank in a MA style, they are going to be asked for documentation. Both are reasonable and legitimate situations.

Ill be in Orlando in a few months for a Hapkido tournament maybe we can get together and have lunch and discuss this further?

Greg Hindley Douglasville, GA USA

I live in Tallahassee, 250 miles each way is a bit far for lunch. I wasn't aware of any HKD tournaments coming up. Might be a good idea to start an announcement thread to let folks know.

I dont have any documentation but Ill get on the mat with anyone.

Tae Kwon Do
Hapkido
KIckboxing
Judo
Jujitsu
Mixed Martial Arts

There are a number of folks here that have open invitations to train. If you get near Tally, I'll be happy to train. These days I only do Arnis so bring some sticks and blades.

I HAD always respected the thoughts and writings of Michael Tomlinson, Klaas Barends, Stuart Rosenberg and Rupert Atkinson.

Shame on you all.

Totally uncalled for. Are you man enough to apologize to them?

What goes around comes around.
You cannont take your words away from the minds of others and others will remember.

Yes it does. In fact, we have a short edit window on this forum because people should stand behind their words. I do regularly. I suggest you start considering yours more carefully.

**TonyU** · 12-24-2005 21:27

Originally Posted by howard

...Not to mention potentially illegal...

Assault: the threat or use of force on another that reasonably makes that person fear bodily harm

*Temporary interruption*

Howard, in the state of NJ that is incorrect. A threat under your definition falls under "terroristic threat" contrary to N.J.S. 2C:13-3, a crime of the 3rd degree.

* Now back to your regular scheduled program*

**James O'Neill** · 12-25-2005 08:16

...So what's this about a Hapkido Tournament in Orlando?!?!

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