Japanese black belt titles?

[Jason Chambers]

Greetings. I was wondering if I could get a little help with a few Japanese black belt titles? I'm not sure what specific branch these are used in, but I found them on the net. I cannot find literal translations though, was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction. I was wondering about how to pronounce them as well.

Shoshi
Sosho

He probably means: "Soshi".

[jakmak52]

Also, other words used in a Dojo setting, most often of/by/about the Black Belt students;

Sempai = senior. To be heard in the duality of Sempai/Kohai (Senior/Junior) throughout Japanese society.
Kohai = Junior... see above.

Jokyo = Assistant Instructor.

Shusho = Club Captain.

Minarai = Beginners... ungraded students.

Reminds me of 'Rising Sun' with Sean Connery and Wesley Snipes " Sempai/Apple Pie" I'll have you know that I'm a black Belt. Of course you are, darling

[Shu-Ho]

In my style (sounds very cliche, sorry!) titles aren't earned along with the grade, but seperate.
The head of our association has two 5th Dan Renshi's in his class, and my instructor, who teaches his own class and is also a 5th Dan was awarded the title of Shihan.
Renshi is roughly translated as 'highly trained' and Shihan roughly translated to 'Expert teacher'
As the two Renshi's both train at the headmasters class, under him, they earned Renshi, and could not earn the title Shihan because they do not teach their own class, whereas my instructor runs his own class and earned the title Shihan, but because he does not train under the headmaster, he could not earn the title of Renshi.

Also when I was awarded my 1st Dan, my instructor also awarded me the title of 'Sensei'. Guess it works differently in different schools.

Um, that was all a bit of a ramble, but hope it makes sense. Lol.

[Gene Williams]

Titles are over used in America. An instructor is called "Sensei." He does not give himself this title, his students call him that. There is a difference between RANK and TITLE. Rank is "shodan," "nidan," "sandan," etc. Titles are awarded by an organizational body (not you or your students) and are usually "renshi," "shihan" (sometimes shihan dai), "kyoshi," "hanshi," etc. Most of the titles have to do with instructional level or recognition. Grades beyond godan are rarely tested for, but are given based upon what you give back, time in grade, your teaching ability, etc. Originally, there were only 8 dan levels, with something like judan given as a very honorary and rare recognition of someone really exceptional and who had given much to the martial arts world. Now, every swingin' Richard who starts his own style claims to be one. Menkyo Kaiden is generally given to the founder's protoge' who has been given everything the senior knows. This is more often found in kenjutsu and aiki ryu rather than in karate. There are still traditions in which these titles are honored and reserved for those who truly deserve them. No one in a traditional ryu would ever THINK of calling himself any of those...and no one in a traditional ryu would take them seriously if they did, either. Here is a favorite saying of mine, don't know who said it first:"Any man who calls himself a master probably isn't." Study this deeply, Grasshoppers!

[CEB]

................

[Gene Williams]

What Ed said. That's what I said, too.

[CEB]

Sorry Gene beat me to it listen to Gene. I'll delete mine. He is more articulate with the written word. I'm a numbers man.

[jakmak52]

A brief history of gup/kyu/dan (kyu is the Japanese equivalent of gup) ranking systems and belts, follows:

Before Jigoro Kano invented Judo, there was no kyu/dan ranking system. Kano invented it when he awarded "shodan" to two of his senior students (Saito and Tomita) in 1883. Even then, there was no external differentiation between yudansha (dan ranks) and mudansha (those who hadn't yet attained dan ranking). Kano apparently began the custom of having his yudansha wear black obis in 1886. These obis weren't the belts karateka and judoka wear today - Kano hadn't invented the judogi (uniform) yet, and his students were still practicing in kimono. They were the wide obi still worn with formal kimono. In 1907, Kano introduced the modern gi and its modern obi, but he still only used white and black.

Karateka in Okinawa didn't use any sort of special uniform at all in the old days. The kyu/dan ranking system, and the modern karategi (modified judogi) were first adopted by Funakoshi in an effort to encourage karate's acceptance by the Japanese. He awarded the first "shodan" ranks given in karate to Tokuda, Otsuka, Akiba, Shimizu, Hirose, Gima, and Kasuya on April 10, 1924. The adoption of the kyu/dan system and the adoption of a standard uniform based on the judogi were 2 of the 4 conditions which the Dai-Nippon Butokukai required before recognizing karate as a "real" martial art. If you look at photographs of Okinawan karateka training in the early part of this century, you'll see that they were training in their everyday clothes, or in their underwear.

Traditional Shotokan Kata Rankings:
11th Kyu - Yellow Belt with Stripe (KinderKarate)
10th Kyu - Yellow Belt
9th Kyu - Orange Belt
8th Kyu - Blue Belt
7th Kyu - Green Belt
6th Kyu - Green Belt
5th Kyu - 1st Degree Purple
4th Kyu - 2nd Degree Purple
3rd Kyu - 1st Degree Brown
2nd Kyu - 2nd Degree Brown
1st Kyu - 3rd Degree Brown
Pre-Shodan - Black
Shodan - 1st Degree Black Belt
Nidan - 2nd Degree Black Belt
Sandan - 3rd Degree Black Belt
Yondan - 4th Degree Black Belt
Godan - 5th Degree Black Belt
Rokudan - 6th Degree Black Belt

[Gene Williams]

Well, we know that, but we were speaking of more recent times and misconceptions. I think the use of titles has reached the point of absurdity.

[G Hendrix]

I'll trade you a Renshi for one of you Shihan. Since I like you, I'll throw in a 10th dan in the art of your choice.

[Gene Williams]

Tell you what, Gabe, I'm feeling generous. I'll accept your offer and take a 10th dan in aikido. I've always liked that stuff and I guess if I have a 10th dan I'll be really good at it. In exchange, I'll give you a Shihan title in Cane so you can go to Barry's and teach. I'll even throw in a top hat and tap shoes. You buy the tux.

[G Hendrix]

Deal! I like it. Shihan Canemaster Gabe. Music to my ears! Yes, I am going to use just my first name!! The babes at Barry's dig a Shihan in tux!


Should we call you O Sensei Williams now that you are a 10th dan Aikido Grandmaster?

[jakmak52]

Well, we know that, but we were speaking of more recent times and misconceptions. I think the use of titles has reached the point of absurdity.

I was relating to ranks , not titles. We all knew that, or just a few of us?

[G Hendrix]

Deal! I like it. Shihan Canemaster Gabe. Music to my ears! Yes, I am going to use just my first name!! The babes at Barry's dig a Shihan in tux!


Should we call you O Sensei Williams now that you are a 10th dan Aikido Grandmaster?

Just a clarification. I was referring to the babes at Bally's ( http://www.caesars.com/ballys/lasvegas/ ) and not the ladies at someone's household.

[Gene Williams]

Just a clarification. I was referring to the babes at Bally's ( http://www.caesars.com/ballys/lasvegas/ ) and not the ladies at someone's household.

How do you know there aren't Babes at Barry's?

[Gene Williams]

I was relating to ranks , not titles. We all knew that, or just a few of us?

Hi Jack, The use of ranks has reached the point of absurdity, too.

[Gene Williams]

For comparison, if you like, here is my take on rank after 35 years in karate and 25 teaching:

Shodan: 3-4 years regular training. This rank means that you know the basics, have the beginnings of some skill and understanding, and are ready to get serious about karate.

Nidan: 2 years minimum after shodan. A nidan is a polished shodan who is starting to look like something.

Sandan: 3-5 years after nidan: First senior rank. It is also the rank I prefer someone to be before they teach away from my supervision. I have made exceptions (too many ). A sandan is a true karateka in every sense and is physically and spiritually very strong. I won't promote to sandan if someone is under 25.

Yondan: 3-5 years after sandan. Getting on up there. A yondan can be a shihan, but my ryu doesn't award that many yondan that title. I expect the best from a yondan and am not very forgiving.

Godan: minimum of 15 years regular training, usually longer. Should be 35 years old. This is the last rank we test for. Kata should be impeccable. In kumite, I should have to really be sharp to avoid being caught by them. In partner work, they should be as rough with me as I am with them. They don't really need me anymore except in an advisory capacity. Godan should be off teaching somewhere and not hanging around my dojo getting in the way of beginners.

Rokudan: time varies...several years or more. Needs to have given something back. Should be actively teaching or training hard somewhere.

Sichidan/Hachidan: The most senior ranks. Given to those who have contributed much to the ryu and the arts. Competent teaching; should have produced good black belts. These seniors can teach seniors new things about basic kata.

[jakmak52]

For comparison, if you like, here is my take on rank after 35 years in karate and 25 teaching:

Shodan: 3-4 years regular training. This rank means that you know the basics, have the beginnings of some skill and understanding, and are ready to get serious about karate.

Nidan: 2 years minimum after shodan. A nidan is a polished shodan who is starting to look like something.

Sandan: 3-5 years after nidan: First senior rank. It is also the rank I prefer someone to be before they teach away from my supervision. I have made exceptions (too many ). A sandan is a true karateka in every sense and is physically and spiritually very strong. I won't promote to sandan if someone is under 25.

Yondan: 3-5 years after sandan. Getting on up there. A yondan can be a shihan, but my ryu doesn't award that many yondan that title. I expect the best from a yondan and am not very forgiving.

Godan: minimum of 15 years regular training, usually longer. Should be 35 years old. This is the last rank we test for. Kata should be impeccable. In kumite, I should have to really be sharp to avoid being caught by them. In partner work, they should be as rough with me as I am with them. They don't really need me anymore except in an advisory capacity. Godan should be off teaching somewhere and not hanging around my dojo getting in the way of beginners.

Rokudan: time varies...several years or more. Needs to have given something back. Should be actively teaching or training hard somewhere.

Sichidan/Hachidan: The most senior ranks. Given to those who have contributed much to the ryu and the arts. Competent teaching; should have produced good black belts. These seniors can teach seniors new things about basic kata.

That will work, nice job Gene

[pgsmith]

Good summation Gene!
Most of the traditional Japanese arts that I am familiar with follow somewhere around that time table. The thing that everyone tends to forget is that rank and title only have meaning within the organization that granted them. Some systems and organizations achieve ranks faster than others. A rank of say nidan in Shorinji Kempo (not picking David, just what came to mind), means absolutely nothing within the Shito ryu organization. I have one student in my class that has been practicing Kobu Shin ryu for over two years now. He is a fifth degree blackbelt in Tang Soo Do, runs his own dojo. If he keeps up with his training, he may get his Shodan with me sometime next year. He stands with the other students and is treated no differently, since his rank means nothing within our organization.

[Gene Williams]

If someone comes to me from another Okinawan/Japanese traditional karate ryu wearing a dan, I usually recognize it and line them up at the end of my yudansha. That is, of course, if they can show me the kata they are supposed to know for their rank and their fundamentals are strong and they know how to behave in a dojo, etc. I have had a few claiming rank that I made wear a white belt if they were going to stay. Most dan from traditional karate ryu will watch my class first, then introduce themselves. If they come back wearing a dan, they are serious. Since we all do the same kata and similar fundamentals, it works out pretty well. Usually, they are just looking for a place to train while on vacation or in school and don't want to change to Shito ryu. We have had some great experiences with visiting dan. I like it.