Christian Samurai

[massai]

Hi everyone!! I was doing some research on the history on Christianity in Japan. Mainly because I invited a Japanese friend to church and was curious on how the saving gospel of Lord Jesus was in that part of the world.

And it may seem strange to some but I actually learnt that the gospel was brought to Japan in the 16th century by the Portuguese and that several Daimyo were baptised as Christians.

However later during the reign of Hideyoshi the practice of Christianity was banned and the Christian population was greatly persecuted. Must of them were killed while some of them lived in hiding.

I found out that the base of Christianity in Japan was the area around Nagasaki(my Japanese friend also confirmed this) and also that a Christian Daimyo known as Takayama Ukon is known for having resented Hideyoshi's persecution of Christians.

Takayama was later exiled out of Japan and settled and died on the Phillipine Islands.

The glorious and redemptive word of God sure can reach and touch the hearts of everybody.

Nothing spectacular about this just something interesting I found out.

[Erik]

If you want to talk about history and cross-culture interactions, that's interesting. But kindly take your well-meant proselytizing elsewhere.

Nothing has caused more violence than religion. Your post provides an example.

[Dennis Monk]

Nothing has caused more violence than religion. Your post provides an example.

I disagree, maybe religious fanatacism, but not religion itself. I wasn't offended, and I was interested to hear about something such as that. I should have known , but did not and feel better for learning about it.

[massai]

Erik there is adifference between proselytizing and sharing your interest. This definitely is merely sharing on a topic that I thought wasnt well known and is quite interesting.

[Erik]

Sorry if I was unclear as to what I meant - please, do keep posting about this history!

[Cliff Hargrave]

If you want to talk about history and cross-culture interactions, that's interesting. But kindly take your well-meant proselytizing elsewhere.

Nothing has caused more violence than religion. Your post provides an example.

wrong side of the bed today Eric?

[Abbax8]

Maybe these posts should be moved to the Budo and Philosophy section, it was dual posted.

Peace

Dennis

[Erik]

wrong side of the bed today Eric?

Yes, and sorry - I didn't mean it like it came out. I apologize.

[massai]

Sorry for posting on the same topic twice. I posted on the philosophy section and then found out about this section that talks about Japanese culture and history, but couldnt delete the first one. I'll keep it on one section next time. Thanks

[massai]

Hey Dennis Monk, if you want to know more about this subject there is more information on the thread found in the Philosophy section.

[Kyuusaku]

"...saving gospel of Lord Jesus..."
"...glorious and redemptive word of God..."

I guess phrases like these make it sound like proselytizing, even if it isn't.

As for Japan and Christianity, these days, Christianity is quite negligible and will probably remain that way. There are a few people, but not really that many.

Edward Cha

[Erik]

Yeah, Ed, that's what it was to which I was referring, but I didn't mean to jump down Lesley's throat.

[Ellis Amdur]

The story, with all it's betrayals, gets pretty confusing, but here it is.

Takayama Ukon and his father, Takayama Tomoteru were, in fact, devout Christians. Active in the mid-late 1500's, they were first retainers of Matsunaga Hisahide. Matsunaga murdered the Shogun, Ashikaga Yoshiteru, and then went to war against the Miyoshi clan. The Takayama's castle was destroyed, and they escaped to become vassals of Wada Koremasa.

Wada went to war against Araki Murashige, and was killed, but the latter was not able to take over the Wada domain, which was taken over by Wada Korenaga. Takayama heard that, for some reason, that Wada planned to kill him. So the Takayama's invited Wada to a party. Wada showed up, and the Takayama's, along with 15 retainers, attacked. They killed most of the retainers, but Wada escaped. To prepare for the attack, they contacted their enemy, Araki Murashige, and after the assasination failed, they joined forces and took over the Wada land. Takayama, the father, sort of "retired," and gave control of his forces to his son, Ukon.

Araki Murashige became one of the greatest generals under Nobunaga, but for reasons unknown, he revolted (some say it was for morality, as Nobunaga was a mass murderer - even in the context of the times; some say he'd heard that Nobunaga decided to kill him; some say it was opportunism).

Takayama was one of Araki's closest allies. So Nobunaga sent a Jesuit priest to visit him, and he said, essentially, that if Ukon didn't change sides, it would go very badly for all the Christians in Japan (and as Nobunaga had roasted people alive, very badly meant something.)

So Takayama left his castle, and surrendered to Nobunaga. His father was so shamed that he went to Araki to apologize - also hoping that the latter wouldn't kill the hostages that he, like all daimyo held - family members of their retainers. Araki was essentially a decent man and didn't kill the hostages. Without Ukon's leadership, however, the warriors in the castle just gave up. And without the Takayama's guarding his back, Araki was defenseless.

Araki Murashige held out for a year or so, but eventually he lost and pretty much his entire family was slaughtered. Ukon prospered with Nobunaga and later with Hideyoshi for many years. If I recall correctly, his betrayal of Araki caused his father to abandon Christianity. And then, during the persecution of Christians by Tokugawa, he was, in fact, exiled to the Philipines. That he was not killed (like 10,000's of Christians) indicates that he was held in some favor. He died in the Philipines.

Ukon is regarded as kind of a paradox. Some see his action as heroic - that he accepted dishonor in the service of saving those of his faith. But more often, his name is cited as an exemplar of a traitor.

Best

[massai]

Nice post Ellis and personally I think Takayama Ukon sure did show great courage by standing up for his Christian faith despite the situation at that period in feudal Japan.

[Kimpatsu]

Hey, conflicting superstitions are always this way.
What do you expect from something that isn't grounded in reality?

[David Craik]

You're once again headed down an unfortunate road, Tony.

[Gene Williams]

Tony can't help it...it is an autonomic response

[STORMCROW34]

Hey, conflicting superstitions are always this way.
What do you expect from something that isn't grounded in reality?

Here we go again, and again, and again, and.......

[CEB]

It's Tony! There goes the neighborhood.

[Gene Williams]

Alright, the betting is open. I'm giving 5-1 odds that Kehoe doesn't last through August...anyone else? (depending upon how often he posts)