New Info Hapkido History

American HKD · 02-15-2005, 22:57

Greetings

This was on another forum I saw today.

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 13:39:56 -0800 (PST)
From: tkd net mailing list admin <tkdnet2003@yahoo.com>
Subject: tkd-net: Fw: Hapkido History Revealed by James Garrison

The following appears in the March 2005 issue of Taekwondo Times
Magazine:

*****

Hapkido History Revealed

Since "The Background of Hapkido" by Grandmaster Kwang Sik Myung
(September 2004 edition) was circulated, I have been inundated with
e-mail. It is clear that many students and instructors are confused
about Hapkido's history.

Having met Grandmaster Myung in the early 1970's in Korea, I found
him to be a very gracious individual. During our first meeting, he
presented me with an autographed copy of his then newly published
Hapkido text written in Korean. At that time, his book was used as a
test for many of the Hapkido programs in Seoul. In his book, he
outlines the history of Hapkido, which is significantly different
from that which is presented in the TKDT article.

For over thirty years, I have researched martial arts systems. The
majority of my research has been studying the origins of Hapkido. I
have been able to interview many of Yong Sool Choi's (the founder of
Hapkido) original students. I have also been granted access to
original documents that pertain to Hapkido during the years prior to
its final name designation. The accuess includes written documents by
the founder himself.

In addition to my research in Korea, I trained and received black
belt rank at the headquarters for Aikido and the Kodokan (Judo
Headquarters) as well as SJJK (Jujitsu system). It is well known that
the Japanese are precise in their record keeping. They keep records
on every aspect of training.

It is unclear why the Grandmaster would choose to ignore and discount
the Hapkido connection with the Takada family or with Aikido and its
founder Ueshiba Morihei. It is common knowledge, and well documented,
that when Yong Sool Choi decided on the name "Hapkido" for his art,
and present this art, he invited the founder of Aikido, Ueshiba
Morihei, to attend his demonstration in Korea. During this
demonstration, Choi publicly thanked Morihei for being his friend.

Authentic reporting of history is imperative. This is especially true
for martial arts sytem in order for student to understand the
philosopy and psychology of the system, and also to authentically
learn the technical aspects of the system.

Regardless of what cultural insecurities one might possess, the true
origins of martial arts systems must be reported accurately and
without bias. The preservation of any system depends on accurate
reporting. This is especially true since some charlatans are using
the name Hapkido as a "catch-all" term for something they have made
up. Hapkido is a truly complete martial art and its quality can only
be preserved by understanding its origins.

James R. Garrison, Ninth Dan
Vice President World Oriental Martial Arts Federation
Portland, OR

sidekick · 02-15-2005, 23:22

This site may be of interest to some, especially the first paragraph.

http://www.hapkido-info.net/html/james_garrison.html

Mike Dunn

iron_ox · 02-15-2005, 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by American HKD

Authentic reporting of history is imperative.

James R. Garrison, Ninth Dan
Vice President World Oriental Martial Arts Federation
Portland, OR

Can anyone verify this rank? 9th dan? Really? And from Sang Cook Kim? Who? Any details would be great...

American HKD · 02-16-2005, 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidekick

This site may be of interest to some, especially the first paragraph.

http://www.hapkido-info.net/html/james_garrison.html

Mike Dunn

Very different veiwpoint from the rest of the Hapkido world, what do I know.

From His Site

Master Garrison holds a 9th Degree Black Belt in Jul Sool Kwon Hapkido, 8th Degree Black Belt in SSJK Jujitsu, 7th Degree Black Belt in Chung Do Kwan TaeKwonDo, 7th Degree Black Belt in Kodokan Judo, and 6th Degree Black Belt in Aikido. He has written extensively and has contributed to every martial arts magazine as well as to various martial arts books. One example is Martial Arts Teachers on Teaching by Carol Wiley. He also has a series of instructional tapes on Hapkido and a Knife Certification course.

howard · 02-16-2005, 08:00

1. (From the above link - interview of james garrison by dick morgan) "Dick Morgan: You were recently promoted to 9th degree (October, 1997) by Grandmaster Kim, Sang Cook, the man who is generally considered by those in a position to know as the number-one man in Hapkido in the world today..."

generally considered the number one man in hapkido? by whom?

2. "It is unclear why the Grandmaster would choose to ignore and discount
the Hapkido connection with the Takada family or with Aikido and its
founder Ueshiba Morihei. It is common knowledge, and well documented,
that when Yong Sool Choi decided on the name "Hapkido" for his art,
and present this art, he invited the founder of Aikido, Ueshiba
Morihei, to attend his demonstration in Korea. During this
demonstration, Choi publicly thanked Morihei for being his friend."

if this is "common knowledge and well documented", can anybody cite any verifiable documentation of such a demonstration taking place, and of ueshiba attending it?

kodanjaclay · 02-16-2005, 19:18

Guys,

Remember the prohibition against demeaning someone else or their credentials.

Thanks.

rupertmja · 11-02-2005, 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by American HKD

It is unclear why the Grandmaster would choose to ignore and discount
the Hapkido connection with the Takada family or with Aikido and its
founder Ueshiba Morihei. It is common knowledge, and well documented,
that when Yong Sool Choi decided on the name "Hapkido" for his art,
and present this art, he invited the founder of Aikido, Ueshiba
Morihei, to attend his demonstration in Korea. During this
demonstration, Choi publicly thanked Morihei for being his friend.

Authentic reporting of history is imperative. This is especially true
for martial arts sytem in order for student to understand the
philosopy and psychology of the system, and also to authentically
learn the technical aspects of the system.

I would say it is very clear - either, he does not know, or it is an intentional distortion of history. But beyond that, what documentation exists that Ueshiba Morihei visited korea and met with Choi Yong-sul?

klaasb · 11-02-2005, 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by American HKD

Master Garrison holds a 9th Degree Black Belt in Jul Sool Kwon Hapkido, 8th Degree Black Belt in SSJK Jujitsu, 7th Degree Black Belt in Chung Do Kwan TaeKwonDo, 7th Degree Black Belt in Kodokan Judo, and 6th Degree Black Belt in Aikido. He has written extensively and has contributed to every martial arts magazine as well as to various martial arts books. One example is Martial Arts Teachers on Teaching by Carol Wiley. He also has a series of instructional tapes on Hapkido and a Knife Certification course.

All alarm-bells are ringing at my house

rupertmja · 11-03-2005, 02:22

Klass,

If Ueshiba did visit Korea, Myung Jae-nam would have known about it, right?

klaasb · 11-03-2005, 04:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by rupertmja

Klass,

If Ueshiba did visit Korea, Myung Jae-nam would have known about it, right?

Depending on when the event took place, yes.

moksha · 11-03-2005, 12:32

Rupert,

I have also heard of Ueshiba visiting Korea. Although I have not seen any proof as far as pictures etc. I do in my own opinion believe that he did. When GM Chang opened our HQ he asked for Ueshiba to attend the ceremony. Ueshiba declined, and sent in his place Seijuro Masuda sensei as a representative of the Aikikai Hombu. This was in 1968. However, I don't think GM Chang would have asked for Ueshiba to attend unless he knew that he had been to Korea before. So, I believe that Ueshiba did visit Choi. Also if you take in consideration the letter Choi sent to Ueshiba's son regarding the passing of his father, I think that might also explain a possible deeper relationship between the two.

Michael Tomlinson · 11-03-2005, 12:35

I was visited by the ghost of bruce lee last night and he had Choi, ed parker, takeda, elvis, and tupac with him in his posse,,, so will someone promote me to ninth dan in any-kwan-will-do hapkido....NOW...
Michael Tomlinson

P.S....Jim Morrison and Jimi Hendrix were there too playing my theme music in the background...

Michael Tomlinson · 11-03-2005, 12:37

just kidding guys now will someone give me a hug...
Michael Tomlinson

aka, the most important person in Hapkido

klaasb · 11-03-2005, 23:03

Print your own 9th dan at http://www.hapkido.nl/?mode=dancert

Morihei Ueshiba coming to Korea just seems inprobable.
Most Koreans didn't want to have anything to do with Japanese anyway in the sixties.
There are no pictures.
If Ueshiba would have visited Korea then by now at least a few masters in Korea would mention this event, and tell you they attended it and that Ueshiba taught them aikido.
For as far as I know, nobody does....
Also I think there would be mention of it, in the aikido archives. So somebody in Japan, please look up the dates.....

mateo · 11-03-2005, 23:31

Reading the post carefully it does not expressedly say that Ueshiba attended, merely that he was invited and thanked publicly for his friendship by Choi at the demonstration.

This could also just as easily be untrue but it is something different.

mateo · 11-03-2005, 23:47

This is something that I've posted elsewhere but I thought it might be germane here:

Stanley Pranin, then of Aiki News and now editor of the Aikidojournal.com, at the behest of people like myself who had asked similar questions, asked Ueshiba Kisshomaru about Choi Yong Sool and hapkido:

“ AikiNews: It is true that a Korean named “Choi” who founded ‘hapkido” studied Aikido or Daito-ryu?

Doshu:I don’t know what art it was but I understand that there was a young Korean of about 17 or 18 who participated in a seminar of Sokaku Takeda-sensei held in Ashikawa City in Hokkaido. It seems that he studied the art together with my father and would refer to him as his “senior”.

AikiNews: If that’s the case the art must have been Daito-ryu.

Doshu: I’ve heard that this man who studied daito-ryu had some contact with my father after that. Then he returned to Korea and began teaching Daito-ryu on a modest scale. The art gradually became popular and many Koreans trained with him. Since aikido became popular in Japan he called his art ‘Hapkido’ (Written with the same Chinese characters as Aikido). Then the art split into many schools before anyone realized it. This is what my father told me. I once received a letter from this teacher after my father’s death.”
- Aiki News Magazine No. 77

This is one of the few things that I have found affirming the existance of Choi in Japan by a person who was actually in a position to know.

You would think that there would also have been some "institutional memory" expressed here if his father had actually once attended a demonstration in Korea.

rupertmja · 11-04-2005, 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by klaasb

Print your own 9th dan at http://www.hapkido.nl/?mode=dancert

Nice one - just tested it out. I am now 10th Dan so respect me or else

Eliz Seuferling · 11-07-2005, 01:32

Hey, I didn't spill my food - I am now a 6th dan.

http://www.hapkido.nl/?mode=dancert

well rounded fighter · 11-08-2005, 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by iron_ox

Can anyone verify this rank? 9th dan? Really? And from Sang Cook Kim? Who? Any details would be great...

I trained with Mr. Garrison. He is legit. He also was awarded the hall of fame master instructor award. His credentials are all verifiable.

Hapkiyoosool · 11-16-2005, 15:25

Mike Merchant said:

Quote:

When GM Chang opened our HQ he asked for Ueshiba to attend the ceremony. Ueshiba declined, and sent in his place Seijuro Masuda sensei as a representative of the Aikikai Hombu. This was in 1968.

This is true and you may view the pics on our website. I do know that GM Chang travels to Japan from time to time to train with the Aikikai and Daito-Ryu. This why our style has such a more Daito-Ryu influence in these later days.

I know that I had to prove my rank when I first came back to the US in 2000.
I "magically showed up" as a 5 Dan and many people called me out because they had never heard of or trained with me or my instructor. I can understand that. If a guy is certifiable and there is a REAL paper trail or proof, he's legit.

I have heard of people who jump form one organization to another to get more rank and never train after 1 Dan. Then they become "overnight Grandmasters" and begin their own organization. If it makes you happy, this is America. Golden land of opportunity. Most of us are on the level.